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658302 Posts in 9264 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 48 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: the continuing story of the 2008 political election  (Read 95724 times)
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #250 on: Feb 09, 2008, 07:43:54 PM »

LOL

Yeah rich I am 100% with you on the subject of Mormonism being singled out because it's so young (and also with you w/r/t the 'One Great Bugfuck Crazy Man Can Make a Difference' axiom), but that's still not going to dissuade me from thinking "You believe that god gave some dude some golden plates on a hill in New York less than two hundred years ago" every time I meet one of the disciples of Moroni
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guanajuato
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« Reply #251 on: Feb 09, 2008, 08:09:06 PM »

there is the matter of the magic underpants.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #252 on: Feb 09, 2008, 08:12:17 PM »

And, well... yes. There is always the matter of the magic underpants.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #253 on: Feb 09, 2008, 08:16:51 PM »

Also, which dogma is harder to swallow:

A) You are infested with the ghosts from an alien holocaust that took place millions of years ago

B) Utah is the promised land
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slow west vultures
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« Reply #254 on: Feb 09, 2008, 08:40:55 PM »

Every Mormon I've known has been incredibly intelligent, sweet, friendly, even docile.

I've NEVER been able to reconcile this with Romney, who isn't so much evil as he seems the antithesis of every positive characteristic I associate with the Mormon people.

I really don't believe Romney had wide appeal, at all.  His camp WAS the Limbaugh crowd.  That and old ladies diddling themselves over how "handsome" and "Presidential-looking" he was.

i think romney had some solid appeal in upper middle class =>the free market = righteousness frame of mind.  it wasn't all about mormonism.  but from my experience, making money and doing well in business is part of the mormon religion.  i think its the 21st century's closest expression of the protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism.  i think romney's staff just failed to see that appealing to this social conservative/free market group wasn't going to win him the hearts and minds of enough people to get him elected.  it should seem pretty obvious.  although why i can see why you want to ally yourself with corporate values, especially for fundraising purposes, and to warm the hearts of republican voters out there who love them their free market corporations and hate them their social perverts, this isn't going to net you a very broad base of voters. 
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #255 on: Feb 09, 2008, 08:46:37 PM »

I'm a card-carrying Atheist, but there are a few things I admire about Mormonism:

1) they reject original sin
2) they're generally extremely sweet people
3) they place huge emphasis on doing good works and being charitable to your fellow man as part of the path to salvation (unlike traditional Christianity where you can be a despotic asswipe bastard all of your life and still go to heaven as long as you give Jesus a handjob on your deathbed)
« Last Edit: Feb 09, 2008, 08:50:36 PM by Thermofusion » Logged

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Thermofusion
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« Reply #256 on: Feb 09, 2008, 08:49:57 PM »

i think romney's staff just failed to see that appealing to this social conservative/free market group wasn't going to win him the hearts and minds of enough people to get him elected.  it should seem pretty obvious.

agreed
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slow west vultures
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« Reply #257 on: Feb 09, 2008, 08:54:56 PM »

so what's the deal with these kansas caucases?  i was watching some of the coverage on fox news and cnn with the sound off and they were showing the final results, but it looked like huckabee won with a total of 11,000 votes (to john mccain's 4,000)  i thought that was just the preliminary reporting, but it said 100% reporting.  11,000 people is all it takes to win an entire state?  that's kind of crazy
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andronicus
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« Reply #258 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:01:16 PM »

Don't get me wrong, the fact that religions are founded by and believed in by almost exclusively crazy people is IMO the best argument for religion.  The major religion which most closely approximates sanity, Theravada Buddhism, is also the most excruciatingly boring.  Fuck that. 

Give me warrior-saints, and dervishes and monks who spend decades on crapping off the top of poles and well-groomed friendly people in magical underpants! 
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guanajuato
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« Reply #259 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:05:21 PM »

so what's the deal with these kansas caucases?  i was watching some of the coverage on fox news and cnn with the sound off and they were showing the final results, but it looked like huckabee won with a total of 11,000 votes (to john mccain's 4,000)  i thought that was just the preliminary reporting, but it said 100% reporting.  11,000 people is all it takes to win an entire state?  that's kind of crazy

kansas is like 100 farms, and then a big strip mall with a bunch of stores and 10,500 shoppers.

looks like obama came on top in these latest caucuses! dude needs an action movie slogan. all i can think of is 'always bet on black' but that was used already.

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guanajuato
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« Reply #260 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:10:30 PM »

by the way, can y'll mf believe hillary got msnbc to suspend david shuster for saying that the clinton campaign was 'pimpin' chelsea out to win votes? what's up with that shit.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02092008/news/nationalnews/pimp_slur_on_chelsea_692066.htm

i'm kinda into chelsea though.
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John
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« Reply #261 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:11:52 PM »

maybe it's that to describe a mother as "pimping" her daughter is, like, really offensive?
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #262 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:17:10 PM »

Personally, I don't feel that way. I think the word has had much of its offensiveness stripped out of it by overuse in the popular culture. Then again, it's probably not wise to let it slip in quote unquote serious discourse like that.
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guanajuato
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« Reply #263 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:31:27 PM »

yeah, it's just focked. an on-air apology should have sufficed. suspended!! that's messing with the dude's livelihood.
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DCDave
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« Reply #264 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:33:17 PM »

maybe it's that to describe a mother as "pimping" her daughter is, like, really offensive?

Not as offensive as Hillary Clinton pimping her daughter.  Not as offensive as denying a NINE YEAR OLD AN INTERVIEW BECAUSE YOU DON'T DO MEDIA.
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andronicus
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« Reply #265 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:36:06 PM »

With John on this one.  Honestly if this election has so far shown us anything it's that racism is maybe waning as an issue in the US, misogyny, not so much.  I don't know that it's the best thing that Shuster's head was the one that rolled (would prefer it were Chris Matthews's fat dome), but don't say that fucking frat house that has been MSNBC wasn't asking for it.
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #266 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:38:36 PM »

so what's the deal with these kansas caucases?  i was watching some of the coverage on fox news and cnn with the sound off and they were showing the final results, but it looked like huckabee won with a total of 11,000 votes (to john mccain's 4,000)  i thought that was just the preliminary reporting, but it said 100% reporting.  11,000 people is all it takes to win an entire state?  that's kind of crazy

i was just coming here to post about this, so i'll post what i was gonna say out of order and start with this.

apparently the turnout in kansas sucks as far as ratio of republican-identified population to total votes cast. kansas is a republican state, but something like twice as many votes were cast in the democratic caucus earlier in the week as have been cast by republicans today.

the result is interesting no matter what, though, as mccain has been spoken about as if he's the nominee all week. meanwhile, huckabee solidly wins in kansas and louisiana is currently too close to call. obviously there's a substantial block of the republican party who are not at all down with the idea of mccain being their guy, and have decided to make their objections public. someone on countdown earlier this week was saying that if huckabee won another primary, we'd be looking at a big shakeup in the thinking on the republican side of things. the guy said to watch virginia on tuesday, but now he's already won kansas and may still take louisiana before all is said and done, so who knows? this could get a lot uglier than was previously expected. the republicans are a party who likes to fall in line; so goes the conventional wisdom, at least. but they aren't falling in line this time.

meanwhile, it's too early to call in louisiana, and obama and clinton are neck and neck with 1% reporting, but exit polls show obama with a substantial lead. he also won kansas and washington state with 68% and 67% of the vote, respectively. he's looking at pulling quite a lot of delegates just from today, and there's still the chesapeake primaries on tuesday and, fuck, maine tomorrow. so we could see obama gain a solid lead over the next few days. i not only hope so but think this is what will happen.

also also, you'll remember that i mentioned obama and clinton both speaking in richmond tonight, but not being able to afford to get in; well, msnbc has already shown clinton's speech (i caught the last half of it), and obama's expected to speak in about a half hour. so i'm glad i saved my ducats.
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #267 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:40:47 PM »

oh, and i hadn't finished reading the thread when i posted that, but yeah, i think shuster blew it using the word "pimping". i understand what he was saying, and i understand why informally, that word has become accepted, but yes, used in serious political discourse it is offensive. he could have made his point without using it, and that's what he should have done. he'll think twice next time, and so will a lot of other people, which is good.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #268 on: Feb 09, 2008, 09:52:11 PM »

With John on this one.  Honestly if this election has so far shown us anything it's that racism is maybe waning as an issue in the US, misogyny, not so much.  I don't know that it's the best thing that Shuster's head was the one that rolled (would prefer it were Chris Matthews's fat dome), but don't say that fucking frat house that has been MSNBC wasn't asking for it.

I mean I see what y'all are saying, but I don't think that statement, out of context, is in and of itself offensive. I mean, she was pimping her daughter. Obama's been pimping his wife. It's what you do in these campaigns: you whore yourself and your family and your supporters out as much as possible. Right? I dunno what the general climate of MSNBC is like, cuz for whatever reason it's not in my usual rotation, but I know Chris Matthews is a douchebad since old times, so I'll take your word for it that the rest of the network is as bad.

I'm with you 100% on the generally misogynistic tone of the coverage this election season, though, it's pretty damn despicable.
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John
edit0r
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« Reply #269 on: Feb 09, 2008, 10:04:52 PM »



I'm with you 100% on the generally misogynistic tone of the coverage this election season, though, it's pretty damn despicable.

Thank you for this. So many people will resort to tired "she brought it on herself"/"well, I hate her, so I can't have any sympathy for the claims that there's misogyny involved in how she's portrayed" etc tropes and it makes me so damn depressed. I identify as a feminist first & foremost, it's pretty much the center of who I am politically, and this election season has given me a sad reminder that the left really isn't any further along than the right on the questions that are most dear to me.
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andronicus
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« Reply #270 on: Feb 09, 2008, 10:06:02 PM »

Yeah but show me the transcript where Mittens Romney's use of his kids on campaign is implied as him pimping them.  It doesn't exist, but there is one where some dude asks him that if he's so pro war on terror maybe he ought to encourage them to enlist, and Romney says, 'well my boy is doing his part to fight terrorism by getting me elected.'  So if you're a guy working to get your dad elected you're a warrior fighting the war on terror, if you're a girl working to get your mom elected you're a ho turning a trick.

The whole 'oh they're just saying the truth that everyone knows but no one has the balls to say WORD UP SHUSTER' angle doesn't work for me, because does the media do this in any other respect? 

Chris Matthews has a pretty long history of saying disgusting sexist things, esp. about Clinton.  Tucker Carlson, it's like you can tell what he's thinking just by watching his beady eyes but some kind of intelligent vocoder built into his bowtie keeps him from actually out and saying it.
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John
edit0r
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« Reply #271 on: Feb 09, 2008, 10:06:29 PM »

(I do think that if anybody said "Obama's been pimping his wife" it would be even more offensive. That we're coarser as a culture than we used to be doesn't give us carte blanche to force that coarseness on everybody.)
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diesel_powered
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« Reply #272 on: Feb 09, 2008, 10:07:28 PM »

Shit, I been saying this for years. Yeah, Hillary is easy to hate, but that doesn't make it okay to call her a bitch.
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #273 on: Feb 09, 2008, 10:07:59 PM »

yeah, pollo, i think you're wrong on this one.

meanwhile, msnbc is calling louisiana for obama, making this a sweep night for him. 52% to 39% so far, but only about 30% reporting.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #274 on: Feb 09, 2008, 10:30:03 PM »

(I do think that if anybody said "Obama's been pimping his wife" it would be even more offensive. That we're coarser as a culture than we used to be doesn't give us carte blanche to force that coarseness on everybody.)

But no one would say that about Obama (even if it's the relative truth; that is, true inasmuch as it's true about HC--I still don't find it offensive because if I had my druthers we'd be able to say things like FUCK YOUR FUCKING MOTHER MOTHERFUCKER on network television; also that your use of pronouns in that last sentence makes it kind of nonsensical to me, cuz like who is this supposed 'we' that is forcing this coarseness on 'everybody?' It's the culture itself that's achieved this level/nadir of discourse; has nothing to do with anyone forcing anything on anybody [though obviously this doesn't absolve people from saying awful things, just saying that complaining about the coarsening of our culture is sort of like complaining about snow in Chicago in January]) because race is apparently a verboten topic of discussion w/r/t this election, but it's still cool to say things like "HC WILL CRY FOR VOTES" and talk about her cleavage and all, and that's some fucking bullshit right there. And I don't care what anyone says, all of these men who for years have had some sort of inarticulate misgivings about HC without anything substantive to back it up are at least in part motivated by a deep-seated and culturally imparted sense that women are unfit for command. The fact that we're not seeing these kinds of reactions w/r/t Obama is heartening, I suppose, but not really so much when viewed in the light of how the media is doing HC.

And Andrew, what exactly am I wrong about? The fact that I don't feel it's especially it's offensive?


Also w/r/t Chris Matthews, I think that shit heel saying that HC only won New Hampshire because people felt bad for her because her husband was unfaithful (?!) is waaaaaaay more offensive than saying she was pimping Chelsea.
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