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658115 Posts in 9262 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 50 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: the continuing story of the 2008 political election  (Read 85672 times)
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #450 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:10:56 PM »

They hate our freedom and our entertainment
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davy
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« Reply #451 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:15:41 PM »

you bring up a point.

my enjoyment of 24 is like the crowning moral paradox of my life.

as far as obama policies go, i know what i've read on his site, what i've heard him say in his speeches, and i know that every online select-a-candidate survey (save one*) i've participated in has him at #1. that said, i hear your point. i think we need to be careful, though, of damning him for not having loads of dirty laundry. however doubtful it may seem for any human being this day and age, dude may simply not have dirty laundry. anyway, i look forward to knowing him better.

*this one told me my #1 candidate was john mccain (?).
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davy
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« Reply #452 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:19:03 PM »

man, the last season of 24 that was released on dvd was ridiculous (was it season 6?). there was like 4 instances of torture per episode. the plot would hit an obstacle and jack would shoot some dude in the kneecap.
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DCDave
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« Reply #453 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:24:01 PM »

Obama used to use coke. 
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #454 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:25:44 PM »

At least it didn't drive him to Xtianity
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slow west vultures
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« Reply #455 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:30:17 PM »

when i was checking the internet last week, my  home page had a news feed from some nytimes article about obama's friends not really remembering that much about his early drug use.  but each time i would reopen the page, the headline was a little different.  it was like somebody was trying to come up with as many ways of getting peoples attention that OBAMA DID DRUGS.   i'm willing to believe that it was just a coincidence, or my interpretation, but featured on the dell home page like that it felt like someone was intentionally highlighting that story, and rearranging it so that nobody would miss the fact that there was a story about obama doing drugs. 
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #456 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:36:09 PM »

Well Ann The Man Coulter endorsed HC, so that's good enough for this guy

Strangely enough, there's not a single mention of the Big O in that entire pile of shit

the foxies think if they talk about hillary like she's the presumptive nominee, that's what will happen. they REALLY want to go after her.

and it sorta weirds me out that ann coulter is the one picking clinton over mccain, since she made her name trashing bill, and i would think would be first in line to trash hillary for some of the same things she trashed bill for. maybe she's planning a bait-and-switch: endorse hillary, then when she gets the nomination, turn on her with vociferous fury. and when people bring up that hannity clip, she'll be like "i was LYING! it was supposed to fool the DEMOCRATS! the republicans were IN ON THE JOKE the WHOLE TIME!"

or something.
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #457 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:43:44 PM »

Obama used to use coke. 

see, the thing to me about this is: so did george w. bush, but apparently obama talked about his teenage drug use openly in his autobiography (which i haven't read), while bush wanted to hide it and convince us that it never happened. i feel like, since obama's admitted it from day one, it won't hurt him as much as it otherwise could, because he'll be able to reply to criticisms about that with something along the lines of "oh, been reading my autobiography, i see? yeah, you're right, and i've never hidden that fact, so i don't know why you're trying to throw it in my face now. i was young and dumb, i haven't done anything like that in over 20 years, next question." plus, it more strongly identifies him as part of the younger generation, for whom drug experimentation is much more the rule than the exception. i feel like bill clinton knew that identifying himself this way would endear him to the youth generation, but he tried to have it both ways with his "i didn't inhale" prevarication, and simultaneously sketched old people out and made young people laugh at him. obama at least is in a position to be honest about it and treat it like it's no big deal--something he's not proud of but will admit happened. there's not really much hype you can generate from something like that unless you're a lunatic fringe right-wing talk radio guy, and obviously nobody listens to them anymore, or else mccain would have lost one of the primaries yesterday.
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DCDave
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« Reply #458 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:45:03 PM »

Well, I mean, if you're looking for a skeleton.  That's the skeleton.  Except it's on display, not in a closet.
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diesel_powered
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« Reply #459 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:46:16 PM »

Obama votes against, McCain votes for giving the telecoms immunity for allowing warrentless wiretapping.
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Quote
she had me at "let's make a sandwich"
Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #460 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:49:55 PM »

yeah, dave, that's true.

and concerning that vote: mccain aligns himself with bush's bullshit just like obama says he does, obama takes a stand for a righteous position that nonetheless gets shot down because the current congress is full of chickenshits. speaking of which, hillary clinton didn't show up for the vote. fucking spineless. at least both mccain and obama had guts enough to take positions on an issue that their opponents could potentially give them shit about (though i think obama would have a much stronger point where future shit-giving is concerned). hillary, as is typical of her, would rather take the coward's way out than do anything even slightly controversial. laaaaame.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #461 on: Feb 13, 2008, 01:51:17 PM »

It's a lot easier to take a righteous position when there's a campaign running; where was his righteousness on all the Iraq war votes
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #462 on: Feb 13, 2008, 02:05:50 PM »

who, obama? the ones he didn't vote on, he wasn't in the senate yet.
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guanajuato
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« Reply #463 on: Feb 13, 2008, 02:12:18 PM »

They hate our freedom and our entertainment

would u rather fight them here or on tv
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guanajuato
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« Reply #464 on: Feb 13, 2008, 02:17:38 PM »

you bring up a point.

my enjoyment of 24 is like the crowning moral paradox of my life.

as far as obama policies go, i know what i've read on his site, what i've heard him say in his speeches, and i know that every online select-a-candidate survey (save one*) i've participated in has him at #1. that said, i hear your point. i think we need to be careful, though, of damning him for not having loads of dirty laundry. however doubtful it may seem for any human being this day and age, dude may simply not have dirty laundry. anyway, i look forward to knowing him better.

*this one told me my #1 candidate was john mccain (?).

i enjoy obama and his speeches shiver my timbers, but what i'm trying to say is he has no laundry, not dirty , nor clean. it's almost like he's a fake person. it's odd.
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diesel_powered
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« Reply #465 on: Feb 13, 2008, 02:19:07 PM »

i enjoy obama and his speeches shiver my timbers, but what i'm trying to say is he has no laundry, not dirty , nor clean. it's almost like he's a fake person. it's odd.

Anybody else here a fan of Transmetropolitan?
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she had me at "let's make a sandwich"
elpollodiablo
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« Reply #466 on: Feb 13, 2008, 02:21:00 PM »

who, obama? the ones he didn't vote on, he wasn't in the senate yet.

Spending bills, resolutions and more have gone through the senate since he took office. I'm not familiar with his voting record, so if someone'd like to chime in, I'd be interested to know. But he, like HC and basically the whole damn rest of the party, showed very little opposition until about a year ago.
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guanajuato
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« Reply #467 on: Feb 13, 2008, 02:29:44 PM »

who, obama? the ones he didn't vote on, he wasn't in the senate yet.

Spending bills, resolutions and more have gone through the senate since he took office. I'm not familiar with his voting record, so if someone'd like to chime in, I'd be interested to know. But he, like HC and basically the whole damn rest of the party, showed very little opposition until about a year ago.

he voted 'present' on everything sensitive. no laundry.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #468 on: Feb 13, 2008, 02:34:31 PM »

Huh. As you were saying, then.
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DCDave
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« Reply #469 on: Feb 13, 2008, 03:23:19 PM »

Here's his entire voting record:

http://obama.senate.gov/votes/109/index.cfm
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #470 on: Feb 13, 2008, 03:24:09 PM »

he voted 'present' on everything sensitive. no laundry.

yeah, that does kinda suck, though hillary's record is worse.

you can see obama's senate voting record here. it's a lot to dig through, though, much of it arcane shit that doesn't matter except to senate procedure that doesn't affect the general public.

personally, i prefer to get the condensed version from his wikipedia entry. here's their take on his time in illinois state legislature and the us senate. highlights:

Quote
As a state legislator, Obama gained bipartisan support for legislation reforming ethics and health care laws.[34] He sponsored a law enhancing tax credits for low-income workers, negotiated welfare reform, and promoted increased subsidies for childcare.[35] Obama also led the passage of legislation mandating videotaping of homicide interrogations, and a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped.

Quote
Partnering first with Sen. Dick Lugar (R-IN), and then with Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), Obama successfully introduced two initiatives bearing his name. "Lugar-Obama" expands the Nunn-Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines.[60] The "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act" provides for a web site, managed by the Office of Management and Budget, listing all organizations receiving Federal funds from 2007 onward, and providing breakdowns by the agency allocating the funds, the dollar amount given, and the purpose of the grant or contract.[61] In December 2006, President Bush signed into law the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act," marking the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor.[62]

Quote
In the first month of the newly Democratic-controlled 110th Congress, Obama worked with Russ Feingold (DľWI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007.[67] He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.[68] Obama's energy initiatives scored pluses and minuses with environmentalists, who welcomed his sponsorship with John McCain (R-AZ) of a climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050, but were skeptical of his support for a bill promoting liquefied coal production.[69] Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act", a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.[70]

Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.[71] He sponsored the "Iran Sanctions Enabling Act" supporting divestment of state pension funds from Iran's oil and gas industry,[72] and joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.[73] A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.[73] Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries.[74] After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."[75]

and a part i'm tentative about:

Quote
Obama took an active role in the Senate's drive for improved border security and immigration reform. In 2005, he co-sponsored the "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act" introduced by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).[56] He later added three amendments to the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act", which passed the Senate in May 2006, but failed to gain majority support in the U.S. House of Representatives.[57] In September 2006, Obama supported a related bill, the Secure Fence Act, authorizing construction of fencing and other security improvements along the MexicoľUnited States border.[58] President Bush signed the Secure Fence Act into law in October 2006, calling it "an important step toward immigration reform."[59]

looking into the specifics of those bills is like falling down a rabbit hole, though, and i find parts i totally agree with and totally disagree with in the details of all of them.

xpost w/dave.
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slow west vultures
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« Reply #471 on: Feb 13, 2008, 03:24:43 PM »

Obama used to use coke. 

" plus, it more strongly identifies him as part of the younger generation, for whom drug experimentation is much more the rule than the exception.

also Wall Street could totally feel that, so he's bringing the business community closer to his side as well.  
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #472 on: Feb 13, 2008, 03:26:59 PM »

hahahaha! i guess that's true.
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DCDave
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« Reply #473 on: Feb 13, 2008, 03:29:35 PM »

McCain's bill was by far the most reasonable immigration proposal that had any likelihood of passing and getting signed into law, though. 
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guanajuato
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« Reply #474 on: Feb 13, 2008, 04:51:46 PM »

here's an old story in the gray lady about mr obama's voting record.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html
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