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657799 Posts in 9259 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 61 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: Association Football in The British Isles  (Read 25881 times)
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Nick Ink
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« Reply #325 on: Sep 10, 2011, 09:08:48 AM »

This is probably of no interest to anyone but me, but basically Rangers are FUCKED


http://www.mediafire.com/?paqbaen9ozn6zp7

I am interested but unfortunately not able to make head nor tail of the 14 pages of legalese in that document. What is it, illegal payments? Bungs? Third party ownership (obviously my personal favourite)?
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Nick Ink
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« Reply #326 on: Sep 10, 2011, 09:11:29 AM »

GOALFLASH!!!!    Shrewsbusry 1 up against Hereford!

As it stands - Npower League Two table
Projected table based on latest scores
Position  Team  P   GD   PTS
1 Shrewsbury 7   4   14
2 Crawley Town 6   8   13
3 Rotherham 6   7   13
4 Morecambe 6   7   13

Crawley meet Morecambe in the clash of the Big Boys later this afternoon, mind, so it could all change back again.

Brought to you by The fourth tier of English professional football - more interesting than the Premier League
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Chet
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« Reply #327 on: Sep 10, 2011, 02:59:37 PM »

This is probably of no interest to anyone but me, but basically Rangers are FUCKED


http://www.mediafire.com/?paqbaen9ozn6zp7

I am interested but unfortunately not able to make head nor tail of the 14 pages of legalese in that document. What is it, illegal payments? Bungs? Third party ownership (obviously my personal favourite)?
Main points are:

Their former chief executive is sueing them and wants the money ringfenced because he fears they may be out of business before it goes through the courts.
They already have near £2 million ringfenced by HMRC over unpaid tax bills, with another 2.5 million bill to come.
Their new owner, Craig Whyte, who bought them for £1, promised a lot of money, none of it has appeared.
There is another case with the HRMC coming up over alledged illegal payments to players through an employee trust fund. The bill could be up to £50 million.
Craig Whyte will let them go under if they bill is over £10 million.

Oh happy day!

edit: Also, Craig Whyte has mortgaged 4 years of season ticket sales to raise income.
« Last Edit: Sep 10, 2011, 03:01:57 PM by Chet » Logged

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Nick Ink
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« Reply #328 on: Sep 10, 2011, 03:20:12 PM »

I'm surprised you actually want them to go under. What would be the point of Celtic without Rangers?
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kyle
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« Reply #329 on: Sep 10, 2011, 03:25:51 PM »

I'm surprised you actually want them to go under. What would be the point of Celtic without Rangers?
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Chet
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« Reply #330 on: Sep 10, 2011, 03:29:34 PM »

Celtic have a rich history and identity of their own. We don't need them. Hopefully it would pave the way for us to get into the EPL too.
They're filth still stuck in the 19th Century and I'd quite happily seem them wiped from history.

The only problem would be finding somewhere to direct my hate.
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #331 on: Sep 10, 2011, 04:20:47 PM »

Would there be point to having Scottish teams in the EPL?
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Nick Ink
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« Reply #332 on: Sep 10, 2011, 04:30:25 PM »

I think the most likely change in the wind is that certain Premier League teams break away to form a European League. Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all have their eye on that possibility, I think.

The idea of Celtic and Rangers joining the English League has been raised several times in the past, but I can't see it.
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kyle
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« Reply #333 on: Sep 10, 2011, 05:57:23 PM »

I think the most likely change in the wind is that certain Premier League teams break away to form a European League. Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all have their eye on that possibility, I think.

The idea of Celtic and Rangers joining the English League has been raised several times in the past, but I can't see it.

Because of financial fair play? I really can't see this European League thing happening. I dunno.
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Nick Ink
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« Reply #334 on: Sep 11, 2011, 02:40:45 AM »

I don't know. But it would be quite nice if those teams I mentioned all buggered off and we just went back to Division  1, Division 2, Division 3 and Division 4. Like the good old days.
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Ignatius
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« Reply #335 on: Sep 11, 2011, 02:45:57 AM »

You can never go backwards, NI
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Chet
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« Reply #336 on: Sep 11, 2011, 02:46:32 AM »

Would there be point to having Scottish teams in the EPL?
Money for a start, attendances are falling season by season, and the league is growing ever more uncompetitive. It might get to the point where Sky start pushing for it to happen, and if they do, it will happen. Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc vs Celtic would generate huge interest. Celtic take huge crowds down to England just for friendlies.
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #337 on: Sep 11, 2011, 02:27:51 PM »

By "ever more uncompetitive," do you mean that most of the money and talent in the SPL is locked up in Celtic & Rangers? If that's the case, it's probably a win-win-win for those two teams, the EPL, and the SPL, though I guess the SPL loses a bit of luster if it loses its two highest-profile teams. Although the play would be fairer for all the other Scottish teams.

On the 'gross concentration of money and talent' theme, in baseball, I kind of wish the Yankees and Red Sox would just form their own two-team league. They can just play each other 162 times and the remaining 28 teams can battle it out to fill the vacuum.

As far as a breakway Euro league for the more financially lucrative teams...how is that also not a win-win for everyone involved? Less-moneyed teams in top-level domestic leagues would finally get a vacuum to play around in when Real or AC or Man U aren't there to knock them around anymore, which would make league play more balanced and interesting, and the giant corporate teams get more frequent high-profile matches with giant corporate teams, generating more revenue.
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Nick Ink
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« Reply #338 on: Sep 11, 2011, 03:26:33 PM »

As far as a breakway Euro league for the more financially lucrative teams...how is that also not a win-win for everyone involved? Less-moneyed teams in top-level domestic leagues would finally get a vacuum to play around in when Real or AC or Man U aren't there to knock them around anymore, which would make league play more balanced and interesting, and the giant corporate teams get more frequent high-profile matches with giant corporate teams, generating more revenue.

Well, I think a lot of people would see it as a huge loss of tradition. As bullish as my earlier declaration was, I must admit I'd have very mixed feelings myself - West Ham have been playing Arsenal and Chelsea, for example, for over a century, and there's a rich history to those fixtures (incidentally we lead the recently, and doubtless temporarily megarich Chelsea 52 victories to 51 overall). To cut those teams out of the league would certainly devalue the competition.

I also think it's a house built on sand with a lot of these 'big' clubs and that inevitably, one day a combination of factors will lead to a re-distribution of power, wealth and success, as it always has done before. Teams like Sheffield Wednesday, Huddersfield, Wolverhampton Wanderers have all dominated English football for periods and now languish in lower leagues. Man Utd themselves were in the second division when I was a kid. Leeds, now in the second tier, were playing in Europe when I was at university. There's no reason to think that the current hegemony will last forever. Liverpool and Manchester United have colossal debts, whilst Chelsea and Manchester City are the acquisitions of foreign billionaires like Roman Abramovic and Sheik Mansour, whose long-term interest in their playthings is far from guaranteed.

As for Celtic and Rangers in the EPL, I just think it's wrong because they're not English. Some might argue that the presence of Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham, all Welsh sets a precedent, I suppose, but they've always been there.  
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Chet
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« Reply #339 on: Sep 11, 2011, 03:45:23 PM »

I was actually talking about the EPL when i said ever uncompetitive. Just look at recent results involving the Manchester clubs, you rarely get those kind of results even in Scotland anymore.

Fact is, Celtic, with their fanbase and the extra generated income that comes from being in the EPL would be up there competing with the top 4 and would make it a more interesting league.
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #340 on: Sep 11, 2011, 04:37:51 PM »

I was actually talking about the EPL when i said ever uncompetitive.

Really? Wikipedia informs me that the last time the top-flight Scottish football champion was called something other than "Celtic" or "Rangers" was...1985. Isn't that kind of fucked? I mean I can complain about hegemony in American professional sports til I'm blue in the face, but thankfully there's nothing remotely resembling that kind of inequity over here.
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Chet
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« Reply #341 on: Sep 11, 2011, 04:46:50 PM »

Only 4 teams have won the EPL since it's inception in 1991 Manchester Utd (12) Arsenal and Chelsea (3) and Blackburn (1) which is more shocking since the playing field is more even in terms of finances.

I can only think of the Bundesliga that isn't dominated by 2 or 3 teams year in year out.
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #342 on: Sep 11, 2011, 05:06:14 PM »

That's...fucked. I know there are massive differences in culture and financial structure in play, but I don't see how that's exciting for anyone. Not to turn this into an America vs. Euro thing, but, in that same span of time (since 1991):

12 different MLB champions
14 different NFL champions
12 different NHL champions
8 different NBA champions
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Chet
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« Reply #343 on: Sep 11, 2011, 05:18:00 PM »

That's cool if you're a fan of socialism.
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #344 on: Sep 11, 2011, 05:32:45 PM »

It's been four seasons since your last championship! The pain! The sacrifice!
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Nick Ink
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« Reply #345 on: Sep 12, 2011, 01:38:24 AM »

It's been four seasons since your last championship! The pain! The sacrifice!

For most supporters, winning the championship (or the Premier League championship anyway) isn't an aspiration at all. In West Ham's 116 years, out highest league position was 3rd (in 1986), and we've only finished in the top 6 twice! And we've spent more than half of that time in the top tier.

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Thermofusion
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« Reply #346 on: Sep 12, 2011, 03:10:36 PM »

For most supporters, winning the championship (or the Premier League championship anyway) isn't an aspiration at all.

Man, I cannot wrap my brain around that...
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Ignatius
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« Reply #347 on: Sep 12, 2011, 03:39:42 PM »

I feel that way on a season-by-season basis, and there are certain basketball teams I appreciate as perennial non-contenders who I nonetheless celebrate if they even have a competitive season. But it would be frustrating to cheer for a team incapable of building on whatever incremental success they achieved in a given year.
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kyle
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« Reply #348 on: Sep 12, 2011, 04:43:17 PM »

I think it's a bit early to say that the EPL is turning into a two horse race. Sure United beat a weak tottenham side, a severely weakened Arsenal side, and then Bolton, lacking a starting midfielder in Stuart Holden. Rooney has just been unstoppable so far this year, and is looking like he is about to have the best season of his life. Also Man Utd have really started to change their game this year to make it much more fluid while in possession, so not just relying on their counterattacks. Over these games they've looked dominating, but not unstoppable.

Man City hasn't had as much real competition, outside of the thrashing they handed Tottenham. They do look incredibly dangerous, however I think Dzeko will have a year similar to Berbatov's last, scoring lots of goals over few games. The idea of Silva, Nasri, and Aguero being a part of the attacking six is terrifying though, and I'm sure they'll put a lot of goals in this year. But remember, they only beat Bolton 3-2. They have a pretty easy schedule, to be honest, until their derby in late October, which I'm hoping will be enjoyable.
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kyle
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« Reply #349 on: Sep 12, 2011, 04:46:54 PM »

That's...fucked. I know there are massive differences in culture and financial structure in play, but I don't see how that's exciting for anyone. Not to turn this into an America vs. Euro thing, but, in that same span of time (since 1991):

12 different MLB champions
14 different NFL champions
12 different NHL champions
8 different NBA champions


Well three of those sports have drafts right? That's a pretty strong equalizer.
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