*
*
Home
Help
Search
Login
Register
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Jul 31, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search: Advanced search
657809 Posts in 9259 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 72 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7
Print
Author Topic: Finding God in music.  (Read 7961 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #50 on: Sep 12, 2009, 07:31:30 PM »

Ehhh, sorry guys I'm getting way to aggro about this.  That's what I get for posting about religion after the ND. Michigan game
Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
coldforge
Registered user

Posts: 11924


« Reply #51 on: Sep 12, 2009, 07:44:50 PM »

Blucas, that whole paragraph was a parodic recapitulation of the stereotypical dorm room conversation about religion that happens in every freshman year the nation over. It was mostly a line for line rip of a Stella routine.
Logged

è l'era del terzo mondo.
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #52 on: Sep 12, 2009, 07:47:41 PM »

hahaha I guess I've heard it in earnest too many times.
Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
billy goat redemption
Registered user

Posts: 13


« Reply #53 on: Sep 12, 2009, 07:56:10 PM »

But CT is right, the language in the OP is transparently Christian, even if it's not explicitly Christian.  Moreover, it's transparently American Protestant (I don't think its necessarily specific to evangelicism).  People didn't make that leap for no reason.  xpost

so you know i am not american protestant. i am in a strange in between of confused human and Russian Orthodoxy.

i am not here to discuss religion, because i too am not a fan of about 98% of organized religion. i think the majority of the church is wrong. merely because what they do and what they preach are both terrible reflections of the Bible.  

i say fact because think about it, grandeur, the wilderness, the unexplored, the unknown, wonder, emotions, and searching.  all of these things are NOT something that sprout out of scum of the primordial ooze,  we cannot recreate anything even close to human emotions, we can program a machine to act certain ways in response to an input but we can not rebirth a fresh set of emotions.  
so where does this sense of wonder and grandeur come from. not ooze.  if it was evolution that brought us higher brain function and even our emotions, why are we the only creature to have the articulate thoughts we do. the ability to bitch on some dude thread?

may i suggest some form of higher power? THATS CRAZY!! NOTHING CAN BE BIGGER THAN ME!!! HUMANS ARE THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN. that is a subconscious and sometimes conscious attitude of being a selfish human, like we all are. that complex is something we all have in some way or another. we tend to think there cant be more yet we search for more, we try and find meaning in our lives. why? why does having a meaning even matter? it matters because its the innate desire and longing to find our origin, our creator, our reason for being here. i highly doubt anyone can say that never in there life have they thought about or sought after there meaning or purpose in life. its a struggle all teenagers go through.

so thats why i say there must be a God. maybe not the Christian god or the whatever other gods but there is some form of God figure. we are far too complex and uniquely designed to be the outcome of a explosion made from nothing.  

i may seem a bit harsh or "over the top" about things but hey i am the way i am.

and if you dont believe in god. then thats up to you, be i encourage you to question and seek.
Logged
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #54 on: Sep 12, 2009, 08:23:00 PM »

we can program a machine to act certain ways in response to an input but we can not rebirth a fresh set of emotions.  


Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #55 on: Sep 12, 2009, 08:27:12 PM »

 if it was evolution that brought us higher brain function and even our emotions, why are we the only creature to have the articulate thoughts we do. the ability to bitch on some dude thread?

In all seriousness though, this is an incredibly weak anti-evolutionary argument.  Many different animals have varied (and often quite sophisiticated) communication systems; and some *do* in fact express emotional states.

Next you'll be telling me about the banana
Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
Danen
Registered user

Posts: 642


« Reply #56 on: Sep 12, 2009, 08:38:38 PM »

"Jesus" by the Velvet Underground

Jesus, help me find my proper place
Jesus, help me find my proper place
help me in my weakness
'cause I'm falling out of grace
Jesus, Jesus.



(note: I very nearly posted the lyrics for "Heroin" instead. I think they make a similar point)
Logged
jebreject
Registered user

Posts: 27071


« Reply #57 on: Sep 12, 2009, 08:44:21 PM »

Dear God, hope you got the letter and
I pray you can make it better down here
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
But all the people that you made in your image
See them starving on their feet
'Cause they don't get enough to eat from God
I can't believe in you

Dear God, sorry to disturb you but
I feel that I should be heard loud and clear
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
And all the people that you made in your image
See them fighting in the street
'Cause they can't make opinions meet about God
I can't believe in you

Did you make disease and the diamond blue?
Did you make mankind after we made you?
And the devil too!

Dear God, don't know if you noticed but
Your name is on a lot of quotes in this book
And us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look
And all the people that you made in your image
Still believing that junk is true
Well I know it ain't, and so do you, dear God
I can't believe in
I don't believe in

I won't believe in heaven and hell
No saints, no sinners, no devil as well
No pearly gates, no thorny crown
You're always letting us humans down
The wars you bring, the babes you drown
Those lost at sea and never found
And it's the same the whole world 'round
The hurt I see helps to compound
The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
Is just somebody's unholy hoax
And if you're up there you'd perceive
That my heart's here upon my sleeve
If there's one thing I don't believe in
It's you
Dear God.
Logged

I'm not racist, I've got lots of black Facebook friends.
jebreject
Registered user

Posts: 27071


« Reply #58 on: Sep 12, 2009, 08:47:57 PM »

Once again the battle field is your body and those who want control have laid
down their terms in black & white and red all over they keep the backstreet
butchers in business as advertised from a bullhorn and the all knowing man
has set up his make-believe graveyard with tiny white crosses for millions of
make-believe souls someday I'd like to see a cross set up for a real live
human being who bled to death to maintain the sanctity of mary mary & child
scream the bigots who couldn't care less about human life obey their self-
righteous lies while your sisters & daughters die all decisions are final your
body is forbidden.
Logged

I'm not racist, I've got lots of black Facebook friends.
jebreject
Registered user

Posts: 27071


« Reply #59 on: Sep 12, 2009, 08:49:30 PM »

“Live like an angel, die like a devil.” Don’t let it worry you, we’re down here together. We’re all here: heathens, heretics, kids with blue socks. I asked some questions and wasn’t satisfied with the answers. It seems that’s the biggest crime since not fitting in. But we’re all here: King Diamond, todd’s mom, fallen angels, the decimated cultures, the kid in the corner in sweat pants. We’ll find our own way.
Logged

I'm not racist, I've got lots of black Facebook friends.
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #60 on: Sep 12, 2009, 08:59:58 PM »

If we're going to go down this road in earnest: the best Jesus-ey music ever put to record (by a wide margin given the crowded field) is the stuff the Soul Stirrers did with Sam Cooke. 
« Last Edit: Sep 12, 2009, 09:04:57 PM by dieblucasdie » Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
Danen
Registered user

Posts: 642


« Reply #61 on: Sep 12, 2009, 10:01:07 PM »

If we're going to go down this road in earnest: the best Jesus-ey music ever put to record (by a wide margin given the crowded field) is the stuff the Soul Stirrers did with Sam Cooke. 


Man, that is right on. So simple, no excess needed, it's all in that voice. 
Logged
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #62 on: Sep 12, 2009, 10:13:30 PM »

"How Far Am I from Canaan?" "The Hem of His Garment" and "Farther Along" in particular are just insane. 
Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
lastclearchance
Registered user

Posts: 1923


« Reply #63 on: Sep 12, 2009, 10:46:19 PM »

i thought this thread was about the Martin Hanford album
Logged

Quote from: cold before sunrise
Look, who's giving the report, YOU chowderheads or ME?
coldforge
Registered user

Posts: 11924


« Reply #64 on: Sep 12, 2009, 11:18:16 PM »

Incidentally bluc I would say at this point in time there is a useful difference between the terms 'spiritual' and 'religious', notwithstanding the obnoxiousness of people who usually trot that line out. More people than ever before, I would say, who are interested in religious matters—deity, the afterlife, universal morality, the true nature of reality—are unaffiliated with any organized religious practice or tradition. Your standard unchurched 'seeker' might come off as dilentattish and unfocused, but as long as the population of the Western world continues to divorce itself from its churches, your proportion of sp-but-not-re'niks will tick upwards. I and anybody else could easily imagine how somebody, after all, could indeed possess an inclination towards mysticism, worship, gnosis or revelation, and still be utterly disinclined to participate in any practice that aligns itself with any established religious tradition.
Logged

è l'era del terzo mondo.
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #65 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:03:45 AM »

Oh, fair enough, I just find it annoying.  People are free to do believe as they like; I'm free to think they are douchebags. 

Like I said, I just generally see that line being used by A) closet Christians who are too lazy to go to church, and feel the need to hate on organized religion instead of just admitting that they're religious but nonobservant, and B) people on the other extreme: closet atheists who fear their Catholic grandmothers will roll in their graves if they admit it, and so cling to some nebulous, ill-defined, inoffensive U2ish concept of A God Who Doesn't Do Anything, or C) people who haven't spent any fucking time at all thinking about religious matters, and are trying to come up with something on-the-fly that justifies their lifestyle and doesn't require them to do anything or read anything or think about it again tomorrow. 

There could definitely be a well-defined, thoughtful "spiritual but not religious" position, like the one you hint at.  I just never see it.  That's why I pushed your joke post; I was half-hoping you'd have something considered on the subject. 
« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2009, 12:07:52 AM by dieblucasdie » Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
coldforge
Registered user

Posts: 11924


« Reply #66 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:09:49 AM »

I think there's a lot of people who either can't bring themselves yet to believe that there is no god, or conversely don't actively believe in any god but nevertheless can't shake this curiosity⁓unconscious feeling that there is some kind of guiding/creative/suffusing power outside of their perception, but who in either case can't really in good faith put the name of your god or any other to that sensation—or for that matter are as-yet unable to act on these feelings. I don't think those people are automatically douchebags, or automatically members of U2.

If someone is quite serious about the question of their own belief, I would hate to feel that they need to quick-quick find some pre-made behavioral role to fit themselves into, on pain of being called a poser by someone who is more comfortable than they to call himself a Catholic.
Logged

è l'era del terzo mondo.
billy goat redemption
Registered user

Posts: 13


« Reply #67 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:15:24 AM »

there are people who claim to be a mirror of Christ but are merely trying to reflect themselves. its sad to say but i for the most part hate western church culture./  its the blind leading the blind of a cliff into oblivion. 

i just read the Bible and try and follow it. thats where i stand in my stroll through life. if you are any other religion, then ok. thats fine. i can be a Christ follower and not be judgmental of other peoples belief systems,

sorry if i came off like a quivering douche silo. didnt mean to
Logged
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #68 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:20:20 AM »

I'm admittedly generalizing based on personal experience here.

I have absolutely zero beef with anyone struggling with and/or honestly engaging with religious issues (or anyone who washes his hands of them entirely).  I just hardly ever see that, especially where the specific line "I'm spiritual but not religious" is concerned.  

xpost to cf
Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
donblood
Guest
« Reply #69 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:33:03 AM »

I fall straight into that "spiritual but not religious" camp (though I probably wouldn't describe it that way), mostly because I don't buy any dogma, but I have faith in the unknown slowly becoming known, which is indistinguishable from magic as far as I'm concerned.

For instance there is a giant black hole in the center of our galaxy and we only figured this out within the last decade.  My little person-brain boggles.
Logged
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #70 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:36:56 AM »

Well, but I would push you to order your thoughts more.  How is "faith in the unknown slowly becoming known" not agnosticism on one hand or eliminative materialism on the other?  Not asking that as a put-down.  I'm honestly interested.
Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
coldforge
Registered user

Posts: 11924


« Reply #71 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:37:42 AM »

there are people who claim to be a mirror of Christ but are merely trying to reflect themselves. its sad to say but i for the most part hate western church culture./  its the blind leading the blind of a cliff into oblivion. 

i just read the Bible and try and follow it. thats where i stand in my stroll through life. if you are any other religion, then ok. thats fine. i can be a Christ follower and not be judgmental of other peoples belief systems,

sorry if i came off like a quivering douche silo. didnt mean to

You don't come off as a q. d. s., b. g. r.. We here at l.p.t.j. simply think that you might find your stroll through life more spiritually rewarding and nuanced if you tried to see if you could divorce somewhat your suppositions about finding god in general from your own personal religious path. right now it seems like when you think about spiritual practice you are still narrowing your considerations only to christianity; you talk about un-christlike christians, people like yourself, and then everybody else. I bet your own experience of yourself and of the world of the spirit would be more rewarding if you strove to see yourself, as well as those of your fellow christians whom you don't esteem as as christlike as you, as facets (or maybe one facet, to be honest) of the varied and multifarious human condition.

after all, as someone who surely holds no illusions about his own importance in the world and its belief structures—you are a person of the book. you read from it and try to follow along.—surely you wouldn't claim that despite your insignificance in comparison to your faith, that you nevertheless have some insider info as to the primacy of your own path as opposed to everybody else's.

to that degree, i would suggest that you attempt to strip from yourself as many illusions and assumptions as you can. to wit, stop assuming that spiritual practice is christian practice. or else i will summon down as like eliyahu the fire of my ancient and terrible Lord upon you and then we will see some real monolatrism my friend

I'm admittedly generalizing based on personal experience here.

I have absolutely zero beef with anyone struggling with and/or honestly engaging with religious issues (or anyone who washes his hands of them entirely).  I just hardly ever see that, especially where the specific line "I'm spiritual but not religious" is concerned.  

xpost to cf

As my instigating post would indicate, I too have found that s.b.n.r almost always goes hand in hand with lazy sophomoric bullshitting, and speaking personally—on matters of taste rather than doctrine—I would much sooner condemn anyone of such abhorrently bad intellectual taste, their sincerity be damned. I just—and this is speaking as someone who finds it still unseemly and uncomfortable to fast on Yom Kippur when you're eating artisanal cured pork the other 353 days of the year—am also sometimes skeeved out by condemnations of cafeteria christianity, et cetera. I find dilettantism abhorrent as I find it abhorrent to scorn the many confused in-betweeners who don't want to commit to total orthopraxy or to total libertinism, for that way lies Dawkins-style dickish atheism of the basest kind.

I am to tell the truth still wholly undecided on the matter. But as someone whose religious impulses certainly would never brook any God Is Not Greatism just as his free-thinkingnesses could not for a day bear the yoke of the Modern Orthodox Whole Hebrew Bal T'Shuvah I-guess-I'm-a-Zionist-now-hood, I can at the very least sympathise to a degree with the seekers, the undecideds, the just-started-reading-about-Wicca-and-theres-some-really-cool-ideas-in-there Freshman of the world.
Logged

è l'era del terzo mondo.
coldforge
Registered user

Posts: 11924


« Reply #72 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:38:38 AM »

Well, but I would push you to order your thoughts more.  How is "faith in the unknown slowly becoming known" not agnosticism on one hand or eliminative materialism on the other?  Not asking that as a put-down.  I'm honestly interested.

How is agnosticism not spirituality minus religion?
Logged

è l'era del terzo mondo.
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #73 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:42:33 AM »

Oh, you can definitely be agnostic and not have any interest in spirituality at all; it's just an epistemological position.  don seemed to be implying more than just "I dunno," which is why I asked.
Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
dieblucasdie
Registered user

Posts: 24493


« Reply #74 on: Sep 13, 2009, 12:45:26 AM »

With your longer post, yeah, I really don't disagree with you at all.  "the seekers, the undecideds, the just-started-reading-about-Wicca-and-theres-some-really-cool-ideas-in-there Freshman of the world."  Is what I meant by "engaging."  Again, zero beef.  Only beef is with "I'm spiritual but no religious" as an end-around way of dismissing both organized religion and nonreligion without having to give it any thought.  Which, honestly, is the only way I've ever heard it used. 
« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2009, 12:47:50 AM by dieblucasdie » Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7
Print
LPTJ | Last Plane Forums | In The Earbuds | Topic: Finding God in music.
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Board layout based on the Oxygen design by Bloc