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658067 Posts in 9262 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 56 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: Havent you heard? I'm the king of NY! (news thread)  (Read 21474 times)
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jm
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Posts: 4803


« Reply #475 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:17:01 PM »

I genuinely don't get this 'We are the 53%' thing (putting aside for the moment it's a small clearing house for sanctimonious people on the internet). What's the 53%? People who pay federal income tax? That's the only sense I could make of the figure. But if so... what?!

Yep.  Sanctimony among people who recognize that not literally every US citizen pays federal income tax is pretty much the entire size of it.
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Ignatius
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Posts: 7082


« Reply #476 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:21:24 PM »

does the 47% not just include working people with an exemption but also children and the unemployed?
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jm
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Posts: 4803


« Reply #477 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:29:48 PM »

I'm unclear on that, actually, but my assumption has always been that it's an artiificially large percentage.  As in, I really doubt that 47% of gainfully employed US citizens pay zero federal income tax.
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jm
Registered user

Posts: 4803


« Reply #478 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:34:22 PM »

oh hey look it took me literally < 3 seconds of google searching to find out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html

Quote
All the attention being showered on “47 percent” is ultimately a distraction from that reality.

The 47 percent number is not wrong. The stimulus programs of the last two years — the first one signed by President George W. Bush, the second and larger one by President Obama — have increased the number of households that receive enough of a tax credit to wipe out their federal income tax liability.

But the modifiers here — federal and income — are important. Income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay. There are also payroll taxes and investment taxes, among others. And, of course, people pay state and local taxes, too.

Even if the discussion is restricted to federal taxes (for which the statistics are better), a vast majority of households end up paying federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data suggests that, at most, about 10 percent of all households pay no net federal taxes. The number 10 is obviously a lot smaller than 47.
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YojimboMonkey
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Posts: 12034


« Reply #479 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:36:33 PM »

They aren't really precise about it. Their shorthand for "federal income tax" when making that statement is "taxes." as in "half the people in this country don't pay taxes!" never mind all the taxes that everybody pays, no matter their income.
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Ignatius
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Posts: 7082


« Reply #480 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:40:19 PM »

Thanks for that, jm!
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jm
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Posts: 4803


« Reply #481 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:41:26 PM »

haha I'd just been too lazy to look it up all this time.  Goes to show that when you have an inkling that a farfetched-sounding statistic might be skewing dishonest, you're probably right.
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Good Intentions
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Posts: 13882


« Reply #482 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:43:22 PM »

They aren't really precise about it. Their shorthand for "federal income tax" when making that statement is "taxes." as in "half the people in this country don't pay taxes!" never mind all the taxes that everybody pays, no matter their income.
I would hope nobody would make that crass a mistake, but let me guess, I would be disappointed?
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jm
Registered user

Posts: 4803


« Reply #483 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:47:48 PM »

My favorite thing that's been attached to this "statistic" by a lot of right-wing news outlets and blogs (and talk radio hosts, et al.) is that MANY OF THESE 47% OWN CARS AND REFRIGERATORS AND MICROWAVES AND CELL PHONES, SO HOW "POOR" CAN THEY ACTUALLY BE, AM I RIGHT
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RavingLunatic
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Posts: 6408


« Reply #484 on: Oct 10, 2011, 11:57:50 PM »

I don't see how these people aren't embarrassed to talk so crudely and vehemently about how desperately important it is for them to be able to keep "their money." Tax relief for the wealthy the sort of thing you'd expect wealthy people to secretly hope for or vote for quietly, somewhat ashamed of their selfish materialism and too embarrassed to publicly proclaim that their highest priorities in life are to accumulate ever more riches. It's a real sign of the degradation of our discourse and our society that so many people actually feel proud to announce these brazenly avaricious opinions. They sometimes substitute the words "freedom" or "liberty" for money, but most of the time don't even bother with euphemism.
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G.C.R
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Posts: 6219


« Reply #485 on: Oct 11, 2011, 12:13:22 AM »

^^ This.
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fishjim
Registered user

Posts: 1982


« Reply #486 on: Oct 11, 2011, 12:51:19 AM »

Incidentally, do you think it'd come off hella pretentious if I linked my article on the Occupy Wall St Facebook thing? It'd hopefully increase Scoop's audience as well...

Not at all. If you've got a good piece, by all means, share it. The only thing you shouldn't do is start responding and/or defending your piece in the comments. It's hard to resist, sometimes, but it's one of those things that almost always backfires and makes the writer look bad.

The high road is to post the link with a sentence or two, and don't post again - even if you get compliments or stupid criticism.
« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2011, 12:54:22 AM by fishjim » Logged

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DCDave
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Posts: 10387


« Reply #487 on: Oct 11, 2011, 02:12:27 AM »

I don't see how these people aren't embarrassed to talk so crudely and vehemently about how desperately important it is for them to be able to keep "their money." Tax relief for the wealthy the sort of thing you'd expect wealthy people to secretly hope for or vote for quietly, somewhat ashamed of their selfish materialism and too embarrassed to publicly proclaim that their highest priorities in life are to accumulate ever more riches. It's a real sign of the degradation of our discourse and our society that so many people actually feel proud to announce these brazenly avaricious opinions. They sometimes substitute the words "freedom" or "liberty" for money, but most of the time don't even bother with euphemism.

I'd be happier paying more taxes if I had more faith in the capability of the federal government to expend tax dollars in a reasonable way. As it is, the infrastructural, research, education priorities are fairly crap right now, the DoD is fucking horrible, and until there's a NICE equivalent in the United States, Medicare and Medicaid help a lot of people out but massively overspend in order to do it. The idea of "deficit spending" as a bad thing that I should be worried about isn't the most appropriate argument from an economic/fiscal policy standpoint for needing more revenues.

I can understand why people who have accumulated money don't want to fork it over to a government that can't agree on what to do with it. But those generally aren't the more specific arguments.
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Ignatius
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Posts: 7082


« Reply #488 on: Oct 11, 2011, 02:42:19 AM »

Uhh those fucks oughta get better at voting then I guess.
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Antero
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Posts: 7526


« Reply #489 on: Oct 11, 2011, 02:45:28 AM »

Those 53% people are so crushingly depressing.

"I HAVE BEEN FUCKED OUT OF MY HEALTH AND LIVELIHOOD BY THE AMERICAN ECONOMIC SYSTEM, AND I DESERVE IT"
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Quote from: nonotyet
this has been OPINIONS IN CAPSLOCK
fishjim
Registered user

Posts: 1982


« Reply #490 on: Oct 11, 2011, 02:53:26 AM »

"I HAVE BEEN FUCKED OUT OF MY HEALTH AND LIVELIHOOD BY THE AMERICAN ECONOMIC SYSTEM, AND I DESERVE IT"

I want to put this on a sandwich board and parade around downtown somewhere.
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Greg Nog
Registered user

Posts: 21629


« Reply #491 on: Oct 11, 2011, 08:23:49 AM »

Whoa, I hadn't even heard of the "53 percent" thing.  What an asinine idea.
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Thermofusion
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Posts: 10000


« Reply #492 on: Oct 11, 2011, 12:35:01 PM »

Are they not counting payroll taxes?
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DCDave
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Posts: 10387


« Reply #493 on: Oct 11, 2011, 12:47:45 PM »

They are not. They are SOLELY counting households liable for federal income tax and excluding all households with no federal income tax liability which is super super super dumb.
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jm
Registered user

Posts: 4803


« Reply #494 on: Oct 11, 2011, 05:14:49 PM »

Are they not counting payroll taxes?

yo dogg there's a link upthread
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FreddyKnuckles
Registered user

Posts: 11705


« Reply #495 on: Oct 11, 2011, 11:55:33 PM »

There were some "occupy" folks in our atrium today in the US Senate. Probably 75 protesters and 25-35 press. We've had much larger groups come through with no attention.

There were several senior citizens and probably a couple dozen that clearly had some problems.
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I'm in with Greg Nog, IT'S FUCKING FAFFLE TIME!
fishjim
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Posts: 1982


« Reply #496 on: Oct 12, 2011, 12:09:13 PM »

Freddy, I thought you were in Montana - do you split time with DC?
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fishjim
Registered user

Posts: 1982


« Reply #497 on: Oct 12, 2011, 02:49:24 PM »

When someone dies who
I do not know
I do not tend to feel
real bad at all

because a lot of times
famous people aren't as cool
aren't as cool
aren't as cool
as they may seem

in fact a couple of those famous
or semi-famous folks
who I've admired
turned out to be a bag of
dicks
in person

So if you feel real bad
when a famous person dies
there's like a 50/50 chance
you're pouring you heart out
for a big 'ol bag of dicks

Steve Jobs was an intelligent, innovative
successful duder,
who was the ceo of a company that changed the computing
and telecom worlds
Now he's gone, and we're out a smart
dude

I'm not saying he was a big 'ol bag of dicks
but I also don't know
that he wasn't




Exactly.


Freddy, you inspired me to look deeply into my offense-taking self and air out an old grudge.


~


THE DICK IS MINE


When someone I
know does not die
but becomes successful

very successful
and that person I
know to be a big ol'

bag of dicks
to tech support personnel
to tech support personnel

like myself for instance
when I did that kind
of dick-holding,

I think of
that person as a
bigger bag o' dicks

every time his fore-
head's on TV.
Dick-bag.

But I'll admit
there's a dickish thrill
in knowing a bag

o' dicks in DC.
Yeah that's my bag
don't forget it

you dick-bags
with fore-
skins a-tingle on TV

in interns
in the White House
press conferences

where my very own
dick-bag sticks
a dick mic

in the ass
of Big Black
White House Dick

and his dick-bags
and his dick-bags
and I think

it's good
Jake's a dick
'cause this country

needs all kinds.
Oh and Dick
Congratulations!
« Last Edit: Oct 12, 2011, 07:02:51 PM by fishjim » Logged

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RoyBiggins
Registered user

Posts: 6506


« Reply #498 on: Oct 12, 2011, 03:33:50 PM »

It's a funny thing to me re: the 53%...people REALLY don't fuckin' understand the tax code.  Not that it's not convoluted.  But when I prepare someone's return, I tend to ask them at the end "Do you understand how form 1040 works? I can show you how your refund or liability is calculated, and explain it as we go" and about 75% decline.
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Antero
Registered user

Posts: 7526


« Reply #499 on: Oct 12, 2011, 03:35:05 PM »

fishjim, please record that.
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Quote from: nonotyet
this has been OPINIONS IN CAPSLOCK
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