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657786 Posts in 9259 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 68 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: MOVIES MOVIES MOVIES! ACK!  (Read 19157 times)
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Greg Nog
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« Reply #100 on: Mar 29, 2012, 11:29:03 AM »

Also the werewolves kinda come out of nowhere at the end of the book, though I hear they're not werewolves in the movie.
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davy
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« Reply #101 on: Mar 29, 2012, 11:58:32 AM »

I would sooner call them mutant pitbulls. And yeah, that bit is pretty wtf.
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The drummer IS the foundation, p3wn.
nonotyet
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Posts: 7691


« Reply #102 on: Mar 29, 2012, 12:00:26 PM »

I ain't seen the movie yet but I read that it's not clear that they are supposed to have the eyes and faces of the dead tributes, because, I guess, how would you CGI that.
I am VERY TORN about actually seeing this thing. 
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davy
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Posts: 24822


« Reply #103 on: Mar 29, 2012, 12:08:20 PM »

There seems to be this undercurrent of "Hey, this movie's pretty good, right? The characters are really strong, the premise is terrifying and exciting, and it's all-around better than that Twilight stuff...but...you should really read the books."

Am I the only one who thinks the movie was better than the book? I thought the book kinda sucked! Even within the ranks of dystopian sci-fi for young adults, it's pretty unimpressive.
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nonotyet
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« Reply #104 on: Mar 29, 2012, 12:13:54 PM »

I think that lot of things get set up in the first book that get explored further in the next two, which is common in trilogies and can come off kind of clunky --I read a review of the movie on some blog by a dude who hadn't read anything that was like "a lot of children get killed in this thing, I don't really understand where they're going with this, C+." I really enjoyed the books, but I need to re-read them.   And honestly anything that takes teenager excitement away from Twilight is my new favorite thing in the world.
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mountmccabe
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« Reply #105 on: Mar 29, 2012, 02:04:51 PM »

Also, there's the ending, where Suzanne Collins very clumsily attempts to pull the rug from under the reader (the first rule change), and then even more clumsily attempts to slide it back into place (the second rule change). Seriously one of the most awkward plot twists of all time.

Because really, why would you want to pull the rug out in the first place? You have incredible amounts of tension already! Katniss will have to kill Peeta! The first rule change obliterates that tension -- destroying the most compelling narrative element of the entire story -- and that's something you can't get back by simply changing the rules again. Not that she doesn't try.

Huh? I never figured Katniss would have to kill Peeta. There was a point where it looked like she would want to but that gets cleared up rather quickly. There were 22 other folks, it seemed rather unlikely she'd have to be the one to kill Peeta. Plenty of other people were playing at least short-term friend games.

The first rule change demonstrated how those in power would do whatever they wanted, how they had control. Katniss' reaction to the second rule change was her subverting that power.
It was awkward but I took is reflecting badly upon the game-runners, not the storytellers.

I haven't read the book, fwiw.
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davy
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« Reply #106 on: Mar 29, 2012, 02:34:27 PM »

It goes back to Chekov's "gun on the mantle" rule -- "The gun that is placed on the mantle in the first act must be shot in the third act." When Peeta tells the world that winning the Games won't be the answer to his romantic dilemma because the girl he loves is also in the games, he's creating the central conflict of the story. He's putting the gun on the mantle. It doesn't matter that the odds aren't necessarily in favor of a Katniss/Peeta throwdown. What we know is that only one tribute will win, and we assume that it will be Katniss. It follows that, one way or another, she'll have to deal with Peeta.

When Collins changes the rules of the game at the end, she's also changing the rules of the story, which is annoying and unfair to the reader; the gun on the mantle suddenly disappears and we're left with unsatisfying loose ends. The fact that she changes the rules again, almost immediately, just proves that she knew how to end it all along. By then, it's too late -- all the momentum is gone.

I agree with your reasoning that she inserted the plot twist to illustrate the corruption of the game-runners, but I believe it came at the cost of a satisfying climax. If you've made it that far into the story and you don't already believe that the government is evil, you aren't paying attention. The decision to commit suicide in the face of this evil would've been a very powerful moment without all that ill-advised deus ex machina nonsense.
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2012, 02:44:41 PM by davy » Logged

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mountmccabe
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« Reply #107 on: Mar 29, 2012, 04:16:55 PM »

I would never have considered Peeta's problem to be the "central conflict" of the story. I still never thought it would come down to them but I guess that was just me being dumb (seriously; thinking about it now, of course it would come down to them.)

I saw the central conflict of the story to be Katnissí short-term fight against death. In the beginning she includes her family and close friends, at the least, as on her team. She hunts to get food so they don't die, she cares for her sister, tries to get her mother to stay on board, etc. She volunteers in place of her sister because Katniss has a better chance of winning than the younger girl.

The Peeta story is a subplot,
a very useful one. It is a catalyst for the opening of Katnissí eyes, for her to open up and include other people in her community (the Rue subplot does much the same.) Katniss is jerked around; she played up liking Peeta and eventually started caring about his well-being, including him in her community and then she has the rug pulled out from under her.

Itís not about letting us, the audience know that those in power are evil*, as you noted that should be clear already. It is about dealing a deeply personal hurt to Katniss so that it becomes that important that she causes problems for those in power.

She goes from only being concerned about living and not caring much about Peeta at all to being willing to commit suicide to avoid killing him, even after he conceded. Katniss is now taking the long view and sees that the only way she can truly survive - she meaning her and her community, which now includes more than just her family - is by fighting the Capitol. The satisfying climax - for me, at least - was her beating them at their own game.


*  It is also about showing us their tragic flaw; the game-runners arrogance in fiddling with the rules brings about their troubles; they could've just left it at one rule change and been in a lot better shape, they didn't and thus they are (more) worthy of our scorn (as an image of the governmentís capricious control over the people.) And, as their nature is a known thing I donít see the ending as out of the blue; it isnít a deus ex machine for us, just for the game-players.
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2012, 04:22:36 PM by mountmccabe » Logged

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mountmccabe
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« Reply #108 on: Mar 29, 2012, 04:21:00 PM »

Though I will also admit that I was hoping they would eat the berries but that is a different story and doesn't work with a sequel.
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lastclearchance
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Posts: 1923


« Reply #109 on: Apr 04, 2012, 03:17:12 PM »

hey Greg instead why not just watch this youtube video (apparently made by a classmate of B's) that presents a pretty compelling case for an Episode I that would not have sucked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgICnbC2-_Y&feature=g-u-u&context=G2e07b37FUAAAAAAAAAA

wow this was actually great
« Last Edit: Apr 04, 2012, 03:27:01 PM by lastclearchance » Logged

Quote from: cold before sunrise
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lastclearchance
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« Reply #110 on: Apr 04, 2012, 03:19:05 PM »

just got tix for this. milly and Thermo, eat your hearts out.

i might come down for this! also it has the philly-est FAQ ever.

Q: Are you selling food at this show?
A: Down the street is a 24-hour Wawa. 

also

Due to the nice, clean, comfy new seats, you CANNOT bring in dinner foods, i.e., cheese steaks, pizza, scrapple, etc.

and not super-Philly, but still hilarious:

Q: What if I wash my hands and accidentally wash off the hand stamp?
A: Don't wash the top of your hand.
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Quote from: cold before sunrise
Look, who's giving the report, YOU chowderheads or ME?
Greg Nog
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Posts: 21629


« Reply #111 on: Apr 04, 2012, 03:39:14 PM »

super-Philly would be "don't wash either side of your hand".
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Anne the Man
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« Reply #112 on: Apr 04, 2012, 06:16:03 PM »

I saw Attack the Block the other night. Some kids in a gang in South London get attacked by an alien and kill it, then heaps more come after them. It was fun! It's cool seeing a mainstream film about young poor black kids that isn't based around them being that. Though there is a bit of commentary about it from the characters, which sometimes comes across as the writers going "INSERT POLITICAL DIALOGUE HERE". Also there's some nice fuck the police stuff.
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jebreject
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« Reply #113 on: Apr 04, 2012, 09:40:06 PM »

just got tix for this. milly and Thermo, eat your hearts out.

i might come down for this! also it has the philly-est FAQ ever.

Q: Are you selling food at this show?
A: Down the street is a 24-hour Wawa. 

also

Due to the nice, clean, comfy new seats, you CANNOT bring in dinner foods, i.e., cheese steaks, pizza, scrapple, etc.

doesn't use the word "jawn" though
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I'm not racist, I've got lots of black Facebook friends.
milly balgeary
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Posts: 11512


« Reply #114 on: Apr 07, 2012, 06:54:36 PM »

I haven't sat on my fat ass and watched movies eating sour patch easter jelly beans for a long time

Let's motherfuckers roll

Dream House: This was a remarkably bad film. I guessed the twist after a bit, but didn't think that they would actually do it. They did it. Turned into a paint by numbers, and I found the ending inexplicable. Strangely, I found the beginning interesting and would have watched a movie based on what I thought it might be about....

The Rum Diaries: I fell asleep. The best part of the movies is the sun floating in awash in afternoon through basement blinds and the tinkly soundtrack which washed through my half-asleep senses and reminded me of the days of yore, not when I'd be slumming and watching shitty movies, but when it was the early, early afternoon of life, and everything was alive with deep sun tide and sun stumbling innocence.

What's next bitches!


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Thermofusion
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Posts: 10000


« Reply #115 on: Apr 07, 2012, 09:13:28 PM »

What's next bitches!

I heartily recommend Mystics in Bali
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triple paisley minimum
milly balgeary
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« Reply #116 on: Apr 07, 2012, 09:47:34 PM »

I watched the sequel to that movie: Clint Eastwood's J Edgar Hoover
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #117 on: Apr 07, 2012, 10:13:14 PM »

hahahaha

how was that J Ed??
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Babar
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« Reply #118 on: Apr 07, 2012, 10:51:45 PM »

I liked it!
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G.C.R
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Posts: 6219


« Reply #119 on: Apr 10, 2012, 02:06:11 AM »

Edit: This is Not a Film is coming to Chicago next month. I cannot wait.

I have to say, going to see this by myself in the middle of the day and sitting in the front row of a mostly empty theatre was one of the best cinema-going experiences I've had in nearly a year. I really loved this, a lot. I hope you can see it soon and tell me what you think.

hunger Games was pretty disappointing, but I know they've got me hooked enough that I will go to every one of those damn films. I was mainly peeved that district 12 was all so healthy and handsome and not-starving. When I saw dude playing Gale I almost burst out laughing.
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I think it's fair to assume we'll be inebriated and covered in bodily effluvia all weekend
elpollodiablo
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« Reply #120 on: Apr 10, 2012, 06:46:35 AM »

We watched Senna last night. It was great! Super tense and exciting. The narrative was exquisitely crafted out of all of this footage from the 80s and early 90s. Such a great story it makes you almost totally look past what a dumb sport Forumla 1 racing is.
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think 'on the road.'
jm
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Posts: 4803


« Reply #121 on: Apr 10, 2012, 07:02:16 AM »

I'll check that out - you're the second person to have said something positive about it. Also I don't mind racing so much, but I was brought up with NASCAR, so.
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elpollodiablo
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Posts: 32624


« Reply #122 on: Apr 10, 2012, 07:10:22 AM »

The actual racing bit is (made to look) awesome! It's far faster than NASCAR (I think) and some of the urban tracks are just nuts. But the point system and the politics of it are just a complete farce. Every world championship race Senna wins he wins because someone else crashes, or there's a technical disqualification, or the guy who was slightly ahead of him point-wise couldn't finish the race. It's like the entire season leads up to this one race and then it's usually decided on a technicality within the first ten seconds.
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think 'on the road.'
jm
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Posts: 4803


« Reply #123 on: Apr 10, 2012, 07:29:35 AM »

The actual racing bit is (made to look) awesome! It's far faster than NASCAR (I think) and some of the urban tracks are just nuts. But the point system and the politics of it are just a complete farce. Every world championship race Senna wins he wins because someone else crashes, or there's a technical disqualification, or the guy who was slightly ahead of him point-wise couldn't finish the race. It's like the entire season leads up to this one race and then it's usually decided on a technicality within the first ten seconds.

Oh, ok, yeah, I can totally see what you mean. And yeah, it's faster than NASCAR (and generally the tracks are more interesting).
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Ignatius
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Posts: 7082


« Reply #124 on: Apr 10, 2012, 10:06:37 AM »

I saw that last summer, and I didn't like it much. It seemed like they were so insistent on hammering home that Ayrton Senna was a big personality, and it takes a big ego to be a good racecar driver. Great! Didn't find it compelling.

I did find all the prickishness btw Prost and Senna fairly entertaining, though.
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