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Author Topic: Old Harry Potter Thread (NO SPOILERS OR POOK STABS YOU)  (Read 29029 times)
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #25 on: Jul 28, 2005, 05:32:01 PM »

Quote from: "dieblucasdie"
If for the sake of argument we say he's only been following Dumbledore's orders this whole time, far being an asshole, he's been risking his life on a daily basis for the Order of the Pheonix.  I just like the idea that two people can geniunely HATE each other with one being stamped the GOOD one in the relationship and being stamped the BAD.  Two people with personal differences both working for a greater cause, etc etc.


mehhhhh. i don't buy that he has been following dumbledore's orders. i will assume that we have seen snape's true colors, that he is BAD, harry is GOOD, and i am RIGHT in my hatred of snape, until such a time as book 7 indicates otherwise.
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william
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« Reply #26 on: Jul 28, 2005, 05:44:07 PM »

rab is regulus black. snape is evil but also illlustrative of the shades of grey involved in such a word. there will be just seven books. someone may publish 'harry potter and the power of advertising', but it will be an academic paper, and a rather dry and hokey one at that.

ps. names are very important in harry potter (see Remus Lupin: Remus = brother of Romulus, both raised by wolves; Lupin= lupine (of or like wolves)). note 'regulus black'. 'regulus' is diminutive of 'rex' (king) in latin, this suggests he could be a ruler. also, black could = dark. although we are left in the dark about regulus's life on the whole, but we do know he was apparently on the dark side (make of this what you will as far as double agents etc are concerned). he may be fighting voldemort in order to gain his power, and harry, at first teaming up with him, will eventually have to kill him as well. who can say?
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #27 on: Jul 28, 2005, 06:11:07 PM »

We actually know that Regulus was a Death Eater early on, but got cold feet when he saw what it actually entailed, and that he was killed by Voldemort himself.  This would fit with the note from RAB in the locket.  My gf informs me that there's something about a locket at Grimmauld Place in Order of the Phoenix.  

I bet Harry goes to clean out Grimmauld Place and finds remnants of what Regulus was up to, leading him to the other Horcruxes.

I actually think the 7th part of Voldemort's soul is IN HARRY (perhaps even specifically in the scar).  This would explain why he's connected to Voldemort's thoughts, why he's a Parselmouth, etc.  To make a Horcrux, you have to kill someone, and Voldemort had just killed the Potters...

EDIT:  Also, the note from RAB says "I know your secret" so I think Regulus may have nixed the Death Eater job because he found out Voldemort is half-blood.  That would fit with the Black family.
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polkadotchickens
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« Reply #28 on: Jul 28, 2005, 06:29:21 PM »

i agree on the harry as a hocrux idea.  it's the only thing that makes sense for his seeing voldemort's thoughts thing.

snape isn't evil.  dumbledore pled with him.  now why would dumbledore plead?  would he seriously plead for his life?  no way.  this is DUMBLEDORE we're talking about here, one of the greatest wizards of all time.  i think he was begging snape to do something snape didn't want to, ie, kill him.

there is a locket they clean out of the house when they're decontaminating it in book five.  rab HAS to be regulus black...it said "the dark lord," so it's got to be a death eater, and jk rowling wouldn't give us a new character introduced this way.  it's someone we already know.  sirius said he was killed early on, probably not important enough to be killed by voldemort himself, but sirius had a tendency to underestimate people he didn't like (ie kreacher), and he despised his family.

interesting aside on the naming thing...regulus is the alpha star in the constellation leo, the lion.  lion=gryffindor.  probably a random coincidence, but nifty nonetheless.  i'm just an astronomy dork.  did anyone else notice that a lot of the blacks seem to be named after stars?  regulus, sirius (in canis major), bellatrix (in orion), the uncle alphard (in hydra)...

also, godric's hollow is harry's hometown.  harry is SO the last descendant of godric gryffindor.
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RoyBiggins
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« Reply #29 on: Jul 28, 2005, 06:36:51 PM »

Quote from: "dieblucasdie"
I bet Harry goes to clean out Grimmauld Place and finds remnants of what Regulus was up to, leading him to the other Horcruxes.


I sorta thought that too.  But I never had proof from another book!  That's awesome.  I figure Harry's going to go there now that he's not going to Hogwarts and isn't going to stay with the Dursleys.  I also, though, think that Bellatrix Black might have control of 12 Grimmauld Place, and that she just forced Kreacher to obey Harry.

Quote from: "dieblucasdie also"
I actually think the 7th part of Voldemort's soul is IN HARRY (perhaps even specifically in the scar).  This would explain why he's connected to Voldemort's thoughts, why he's a Parselmouth, etc.  To make a Horcrux, you have to kill someone, and Voldemort had just killed the Potters...


I was trying to hash this theory out with a friend a week or so ago, and it's not a bad argument at all, except that I'm told that the process of creating a horcrux might be too complex to be accomplished in that scenario.  I still have no idea.  I must have glossed over the part where they tell you how long horcruxes take to make.

Another problem here is that, barring something exceptional that we have no way of knowing, it's going to mean that Harry's got to be destroyed before Voldemort is mortal.  That doesn't sit well, even if these aren't exactly kids books anymore.  I do think it's possible that voldemort tried to make a horcrux out of Harry using his mother's murder, but he failed, and that's what almost killed him.  Not the backfiring of the killing curse.  He can't have successfully made a horcrux out of harry, otherwise he wouldnt' have been all jacked.  

As for Regulus and the significance of his name, maybe Regulus' name is meant to denote that he was the surviving patriarch of the family?

How long is it before some kids start a punk band called Avada Kedavra?
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #30 on: Jul 28, 2005, 06:39:51 PM »

http://www.eskimolabs.com/hp/

But yeah, I can't wait for Harry to eff some shit up with Godric's sword.  I have a feeling that, in the end, Harry won't kill Voldemort.  It'll be more Luke Skywalker/Darth Vader-ey than that.

I SO hope it's Neville that gets to kill Bellatrix.
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FreddyKnuckles
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« Reply #31 on: Jul 28, 2005, 06:42:29 PM »

nah, it'll totally be like in Hook.  Rufio (Neville) will go after Captain Hook (Bellatrix) and get his shit rocked, and Robin Williams (Harry) will swoop in and rock the shit.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #32 on: Jul 28, 2005, 06:53:07 PM »

Haha FK, next time you're stuck in Billings for two weeks, let me know and I'll give you the Harry Potters to read.  Neville more like the fat kid from Hook.
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #33 on: Jul 28, 2005, 07:31:29 PM »

Quote from: "polkadotchickens"
interesting aside on the naming thing...regulus is the alpha star in the constellation leo, the lion.  lion=gryffindor.  probably a random coincidence, but nifty nonetheless.  i'm just an astronomy dork.  did anyone else notice that a lot of the blacks seem to be named after stars?  regulus, sirius (in canis major), bellatrix (in orion), the uncle alphard (in hydra)...

also, godric's hollow is harry's hometown.  harry is SO the last descendant of godric gryffindor.


i'd put money on you being entirely correct about all of this, and that the whole thing is intentional on rowling's part.
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RoyBiggins
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« Reply #34 on: Jul 28, 2005, 07:40:28 PM »

Neville's totally going to freak out and kill some people.  I think/hope.  I think there's a strong argument that he's an awesome wizard deep down, but that the reason he's not bein' a great wizard now is that he witnessed what happened to his parents, and they used a ton of memory charms on him so that he'd be a functional kid.  That's why he's always forgetting things.

I'm not sure they can straighten him out or not, but if he does get straightened out, he's going to remember what happened, how cruel it all was, and all of a sudden maybe he'll be able to perform real well as a wizard.  All that put together=Neville freakin' out and killin' some death eaters.  Possibly Bellatrix, but he might be too consumed by his rage to manage much of anything.  It's hard to say.
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RoyBiggins
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« Reply #35 on: Jul 29, 2005, 01:12:27 AM »

Also, remember when a bunch of people thought Harry Potter was going to turn kids to Satanism?  And The Onion wrote an awesome story about it?  

Quote
"I think it's absolute rubbish to protest children's books on the grounds that they are luring children to Satan," Rowling was said to have told a London Times reporter. "People should be praising them for that! These books guide children to an understanding that the weak, idiotic Son of God is a living hoax who will be humiliated when the rain of fire comes, and will suck the greasy cock of the Dark Lord while we, his faithful servants, laugh and cavort in victory."


Oh man.  Anytime I need a smile, I just remember how happy I was the first time I saw the phrase "suck the greasy cock of the Dark Lord."  I'm out.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #36 on: Jul 29, 2005, 11:10:50 AM »

I think we've actually put together a lot of the pieces.  Remember:  Harry doesn't know why Voldemort went after him instead of Neville.  So it would make sense if Voldemort knew that the Potters descend from Gryffindor, and so immediately locked in on Harry.  Since Voldemort is obsessed with both lineage and Hogwarts, it makes sense that he could know this even if the Potters didn't.  

Also, remember Dumbledore says Voldemort would have wanted something of Ravenclaw's and something of Gryffindor's for Horcruxes, but Godric's Sword is the only Gryffindor relic, and it's been locked up.  So it would make sense that Voldemort would try to use Gryffindor's heir.

Last night a friend gave me a hair-brained theory in which Harry hooks up with either Ginny or Hermoine, but has to sacrifice himself to take down Voldemort.  It would fit well with the books' themes if Harry dies but leaves an heir.  The book could even end with Harry's son/daughter being left on the Dursleys' doorstep.  It's a cool idea, but no way Rowling would go there.  Can you imagine a Harry Potter book with a sex scene?  They ARE 17.
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #37 on: Jul 29, 2005, 05:00:58 PM »

ok, from an interview with jk rowling located here.

Quote
MA: OK, big big big book six question. Is Snape evil?

JKR: [Almost laughing] Well, you've read the book, what do you think?

ES: She's trying to make you say it categorically.

MA: Well, there are conspiracy theorists, and there are people who will claim -

JKR: Cling to some desperate hope [laughter] -

ES: Yes!

MA: Yes!

ES: Like certain shippers we know!

[All laugh]

JKR: Well, okay, I'm obviously ,Aei Harry-Snape is now as personal, if not more so, than Harry-Voldemort. I can't answer that question because it's a spoiler, isn't it, whatever I say, and obviously, it has such a huge impact on what will happen when they meet again that I can't. And let's face it, it's going to launch 10,000 theories and I'm going to get a big kick out of reading them so [laughs] I'm evil but I just like the theories, I love the theories.

ES: I know Dumbledore likes to see the good in people but he seems trusting almost to the point of recklessness sometimes.

[Laughter] Yes, I would agree. I would agree.

ES: How can someone so -

JKR: Intelligent -

ES: be so blind with regard to certain things?

JKR: Well, there is information on that to come, in seven. But I would say that I think it has been demonstrated, particularly in books five and six that immense brainpower does not protect you from emotional mistakes and I think Dumbledore really exemplifies that. In fact, I would tend to think that being very, very intelligent might create some problems and it has done for Dumbledore, because his wisdom has isolated him, and I think you can see that in the books, because where is his equal, where is his confidante, where is his partner? He has none of those things. He,Aeos always the one who gives, he,Aeos always the one who has the insight and has the knowledge. So I think that, while I ask the reader to accept that McGonagall is a very worthy second in command, she is not an equal. You have a slightly circuitous answer, but I can't get much closer than that.
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polkadotchickens
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« Reply #38 on: Aug 02, 2005, 08:35:51 PM »

Quote from: "dieblucasdie"
Can you imagine a Harry Potter book with a sex scene?  They ARE 17.


i shudder to think how much harry potter fanfiction porno must be out there, especially after he and ginny got together in book six.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #39 on: Aug 02, 2005, 09:34:39 PM »

Quote from: "polkadotchickens"
Quote from: "dieblucasdie"
Can you imagine a Harry Potter book with a sex scene?  They ARE 17.


i shudder to think how much harry potter fanfiction porno must be out there, especially after he and ginny got together in book six.


Haha, was anyone else disturbed by Rowling's constant use of "snogging"?  Maybe it's a Brit/American divide thing, and I think it's just supposed to be like "making out" but still, it sounds so dirty.  Especially since you could use it interchangably with "fucking."

ie "Hermoine snogged Krum."  Ewww.
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polkadotchickens
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« Reply #40 on: Aug 02, 2005, 10:10:25 PM »

random aside, "snogging" reminds me a lot of "scrogging," a slang term specific (as far as i know) to my weirdo public residential geek high school that means the same thing.  so much so that i actually read it as scrogging the first time i saw it and then did a double take and had to go back.  it would've been awesome if the high school i went to shared a rare slang term with hogwarts.  ah well, alas.
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Nickosaurus
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« Reply #41 on: Aug 02, 2005, 11:07:39 PM »

snogging, shagging, whiz-bangs and shazwozzers, it's all mincemeat to me.
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Michael
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« Reply #42 on: Aug 04, 2005, 09:37:32 PM »

Just finished six last night.

I think Snape is fighting for good.  I think the key is the argument that Snape and Dumbledore have at the edge of the forest. (I don't have the book handy, so I can't remember exactly how it is described, but) I imagine this argument was along the lines of "Snape, when the time comes, you must keep the Vow and kill me if necessary." "Dumbledore, nooooooooooo!" Similar to D's instructions to Harry as they enter the cave.  Snape's position so close to Voldemort was just too valuable to lose, and he will end up being essential to Harry being able to even get to V in seven.

Rowling spends a lot of time in five and six showing that Dumbledore is fallible, so you'll accept that Dumbledore has made a mistake about Snape. I think this is a red herring. But I'm not sure. When I think about it in thematic terms, it could go either way.

Dumbledore spends a lot of time talking about how love is the strongest magic.  The reason Snape turns (or pretends to) on Voldemort is that Voldemort killed Lily Potter, the woman he loved.  If it turns out that Snape's love for Lily wasn't strong enough to make him see the error in his ways, Dumbledore's arguments will be shown up as silly. This will give the books a nihilistic quality that I find hard to believe they have been building up to. (But this Snape-Lily love thing might be something I'm imagining/remembering incorrectly, so I could totally be talking out of my ass).

But one of the other big themes of the books is how destructive poor treatment can be on a personality.  So it would totally make sense, given the complete disrespect and ridicule Snape has suffered all his life, that he would go bad and stay bad.  But I find this route way less interesting and kind of ho-hum.  Snape is an incredibly complicated character, and his turning out to be for the bad guys would seem like (as a reader) a betrayal somehow.

Harry as a horcrux? Damn, that's crazy. Seems a little farfetched, but I'll think on  it.
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william
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« Reply #43 on: Aug 06, 2005, 05:42:53 AM »

Quote from: "Michael"
(But this Snape-Lily love thing might be something I'm imagining/remembering incorrectly, so I could totally be talking out of my ass).


yeah, he called her a filthy mudblood, so unless he was pretending to be a massive racist, i'm gonna have to guess not
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sedita
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Posts: 261


« Reply #44 on: Aug 06, 2005, 12:06:26 PM »

As I am re-reading the books (because 6 made me feel like
i had forgotten a lot of important details...)
the 13 year old in me has been amazed by all the
beevis-and-butthead-able naughty talk....
anyone else catch this?

my favorite, from book 5:

"What??", Ron ejaculated loudly.

and i don't know HOW many times, in the series, HArry has
said "C'mon, Ron. Let's go to bed."



oh! i'm so immature.
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RoyBiggins
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« Reply #45 on: Aug 06, 2005, 12:33:29 PM »

Quote from: "william"
Quote from: "Michael"
(But this Snape-Lily love thing might be something I'm imagining/remembering incorrectly, so I could totally be talking out of my ass).


yeah, he called her a filthy mudblood, so unless he was pretending to be a massive racist, i'm gonna have to guess not


It's worth considering that we now know Snape is also half-blooded.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #46 on: Aug 06, 2005, 12:43:37 PM »

Quote from: "RoyBiggins"
Quote from: "william"
Quote from: "Michael"
(But this Snape-Lily love thing might be something I'm imagining/remembering incorrectly, so I could totally be talking out of my ass).


yeah, he called her a filthy mudblood, so unless he was pretending to be a massive racist, i'm gonna have to guess not


It's worth considering that we now know Snape is also half-blooded.


I think it's possible that Snape was in love with Lily, hence his massive guilt over contributing to her murder, and the missing piece as to why Dumbledore trusted him.  The big question being, though, which was he faking, the racism or the guilt?  Being half-blooded doesn't stop Voldemort.  Plus we know from Sirius' family tree that even the staunchest pureblooded families aren't really pureblooded.  They all have some Muggle in there somewhere.
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RoyBiggins
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« Reply #47 on: Aug 06, 2005, 02:11:51 PM »

Quote from: "dieblucasdie"
...we know from Sirius' family tree that even the staunchest pureblooded families aren't really pureblooded.  They all have some Muggle in there somewhere.


Waiting for a sex joke...waiting...
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polkadotchickens
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Posts: 152


« Reply #48 on: Aug 08, 2005, 08:37:57 PM »

i think snape being in love with lily explains a lot.  his jealousy of james, for one.  his saving harry despite hating him.  i don't buy that snape's supposed guilt is what made dumbledore trust him though.  i think there's something we don't yet know about.  it seems too weak for even dumbledore to trust him.  also, on the topic of people who loved lily, i think that lupin did.  some of his and harry's talks in book three seem to hint this way.

now i want to hear some wild speculation.  back in book four, there's a "gleam of something like triumph" in dumbledore's eyes, when harry's telling him about the really bad shit that went down after he and cedric took the triwizard cup.  opinions on what that's all about?  jk rowling swears up and down in interviews that it's really important, but we've heard nothing about it since.  also, supposedly harry having lily's eyes is important too.   hm, interesting.  maybe they have some til-now-undiscovered power.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #49 on: Aug 08, 2005, 10:36:06 PM »

There's also a bunch of backstory stuff at jkrowling.com that didn't make the books.  Weird, and interesting the degree to which she's planned this shit out.  From the very beginning.  Until the end of "Goblet of Fire" I thought she was making it up as she went along.  Not the case.

Apparently Dean Thomas is part goblin.
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