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657799 Posts in 9259 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 61 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: "friends with benefits"  (Read 15694 times)
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Wally
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Posts: 9184


« Reply #150 on: Oct 10, 2005, 09:02:23 PM »

Quote from: "jebreject"
maybe "homosexual" isn't the exact right word, but still, i think there's something to it.  i mean, all you have to do is observe two close male friends, particularly ones that have been friends for a long time, and it's pretty clear they want to fuck each other, at least unconsciously.


My dearest, dearest friend in the world is a normally very straight guy called Raj, and we've had so many drunken nights the last seven or so years where we've just talked and talked about just having sex and getting it out the way. In the end we (he) always chickens out (is wiser/soberer then me).

What I mean, at least in relation to what jebs saying is "hell yeah" there's a homoerotic subtext to so many male friendships, but I think for the majority it's a line not to be crossed and is often skirted around by using competion usually of a physical nature or by the constant gay jokes at each others expense.

Naturally I'm sure there are some, particularly some of you guys who probably use neither of these outlets, so have formed a band instead, where you can sweat and strut and rub shoulders with each other, hell you can even put a little make up if you fancy it.  (this is bad queer theory please don't take it to heart)

On the other hand female friends are a lot more at ease (this is only in my experience not a generalisation) with the physical side of their relationships. Which is perhaps why we're all a lot more likely to hear a miiddle aged woman in a bar tell a story about her lesbian college experience, then we are to hear a guy tell one about his gay college experience.

Personally the majority of my friends have been straight men or gay women, don't really no why it's just the way it's turned out, so any FWB occasions have meant a certain amount of err..bending of our sexualities. And yes it has been the female friends who have reacted better post "benefit" and the guys who have tended to pull away and end our friendship.
This isn't an anti-straight man rant and if it is sorry. After all some of my best friends are straight. Smile


ps. I also apoligise uf this is rambling and incoherent it's been one of those years.
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #151 on: Oct 10, 2005, 09:26:11 PM »

Wally hit on exactly what I was unable to articulate, the "homoerotic subtext" and all that.
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polkadotchickens
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Posts: 152


« Reply #152 on: Oct 10, 2005, 09:29:35 PM »

Quote from: "people"
stuff about the ladder theory site


haha, dude, a friend of mine keeps talking about that site.  he totally thinks he's my "intellectual whore".  he also definitely needs to get a clue (not like i've been hiding it from him).
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stephanie
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Posts: 1913


« Reply #153 on: Oct 10, 2005, 09:42:53 PM »

If this thread turned into a thread about boys making out with other boys, I would be totally fine with that.

Sayin'.
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Wally
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Posts: 9184


« Reply #154 on: Oct 10, 2005, 09:44:20 PM »

Quote from: "stephanie"
If this thread turned into a thread about boys making out with other boys, I would be totally fine with that.

Sayin'.


You filthy little perv.

And also yes.
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tenaciousMO
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Posts: 188


« Reply #155 on: Oct 10, 2005, 09:57:14 PM »

Quote
If this thread turned into a thread about boys making out with other boys, I would be totally fine with that.



I am also in support of this thread.  tee hee
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Lucy
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Posts: 4280


« Reply #156 on: Oct 10, 2005, 10:12:33 PM »

andrew and theartlessmonster OTM re: he's just not that into you.
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #157 on: Oct 10, 2005, 10:18:10 PM »

I've made out with four or five of my close male friends.  In the end, it never really did much for me.  Oh well.
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elpollodiablo
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Posts: 32624


« Reply #158 on: Oct 10, 2005, 10:20:55 PM »

I made out with a guy behind O'Hooley's a few weeks ago. It was the first time for either of us, and I still don't know how I feel about it.
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Maaik
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Posts: 15119


« Reply #159 on: Oct 10, 2005, 10:25:19 PM »

Having given both their due, I've only ever been moved by girly lips.  Girls are cute and soft and smell nice and I like them.
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theartlessmonster
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Posts: 5178


« Reply #160 on: Oct 10, 2005, 10:49:43 PM »

Sometimes I think under the right circumstances probably anyone could have the physical act of sex with anyone else.  I thought about this when I was in San Francisco last fall, I kept driving by these "viewing booths" on Market St. they said in neon signs "64 channels" I didnt know what the heck these were and I would look at the people going in when I was at a stoplight, and think hmm....so finally I asked my friend that lives there what the hell are those "booths" I have never seen anything like that before in Boston and whats with the channels, he gave a vague answer I STILL dont know what the heck "64 channels" means but anyways he said people go in those booths there are benches or something people "do things" in the dark to each other.  Basically he just said "you just stay out of those places Mary" hehehe, (which I did) but so I thought about that and what if you were in this dark booth and people started "doing things" to you, wouldnt you get turned on regardless of their gender if it was dark and you could not see?  I dont know maybe thats weird.  but and oh by the way does anyone know what the hell those signs mean?  is that television channels?  so you get 64 tv channels in those booths?  or are they live people naked?  

oh and is OTM is that On the Money?  or something about that being Off Topic?  Please forgive my unhipness!  I don't know the ways of the web too well.  or apparently the ways of 5 cent viewing booths either...
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #161 on: Oct 10, 2005, 10:52:38 PM »

I guess really to know if I'm into it or not I'd have to do more than making out

'Cause I mean, making out is great and all, but it's not really indicative or anything

It wasn't that different than making out with girls.  Maybe a little, but not a whole lot.
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Andrew_TSKS
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Posts: 39426


« Reply #162 on: Oct 11, 2005, 03:28:29 AM »

there are porn movies playing in those booths. that's ostensibly why you're paying admission with quarters or whatever. but what people do is they use them as meetup sites, let their quarters run out, and just fuck instead. but yeah, 64 channels = 64 different porn movie selections.

and yes, otm = on the money.
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Good Intentions
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Posts: 13882


« Reply #163 on: Oct 11, 2005, 10:45:26 AM »

It isn't as much that best-friend relationships become homosexual, but that any relationship has a sexual dimension.

Whenever someone shouts out "we are all homosexuals" the shame with which sex is seen and the bias against homosexuality are both very apparent - that should read "we are all bisexuals". Which looks very much like it is - a statement that deep down reveals only trivial facts.
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #164 on: Oct 11, 2005, 01:40:03 PM »

I don't like the term "bisexual," but I'm definitely of the mind that sexuality is a spectrum, not two opposing poles.
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heather marie
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Posts: 5753


« Reply #165 on: Oct 11, 2005, 02:00:17 PM »

jeb said it before i could. he always gets to 'em before i do.
the word "bisexual" makes me want to grate my nails on chalkboard because it indicates there are only two genders that one can identify with, and that's completely bunk.
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Bernard
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Posts: 9845


« Reply #166 on: Oct 11, 2005, 02:15:49 PM »

I love the turn this thread has taken.

Re: fwb -- it has worked fine for me only when it was with somebody I saw once or twice year, such that it wasn't really an issue. Sorry, no other experience with it to share.

Re: infidelity. I know it's tidier and more satisfying to think that all that matters is whether somebody was formally single when they slept with somebody else, but alas, human relationships and what we tell each other, what we believe, is so much more complex and confusing than that.

My ex cheated on me outright -- we were a couple, he told me in so many words that he wasn't seeing anybody else, and I found out that he was. I was hurt, and angry, but you know what? It was a sort of trumped-up moral outrage, to be perfectly honest. He was a lousy boyfriend and whether or not he absented himself from other people, he wasn't often really present to me. He did in fact try to set the tone for our relationship but I wasn't happy with it being so cool and distant and would react sort of hysterically whenever he tried to pull away, and yet -- and yet also when we were together and things were going well, we both got something out of it. And in the middle of this we had to manage the whole rest of our lives as well -- his mother's illness, my depression, work, school.

So if I have any moral high ground over him, it's pretty meaningless. I can't say it was 100% his duty to force me to hear what he was saying and making very obvious in a lot of ways, even when his words contradicted them. I'm a grown lady and have to take a wee bit of responsibility for my own behavior -- if I'd really wanted to hear the truth from him, I should've behaved like I wanted to hear the truth and not just buried my head as deep in the sand as I could get it.

As for what culpability the woman or women he was seeing had -- god, it never even entered my mind. It wasn't anybody I knew, so it wasn't a case of somebody using manipulation to try to wound me -- and just because *I* am in a relationship, I don't think every other stranger on the planet is therefore bound to some particular kind of behavior. Nobody asked her what she wanted, nobody got her consent. I'm not saying I liked it, but there's a difference between not liking something and thinking somebody else is a lesser person or morally wrong.

Also, I think a lot of the moral culture surrounding infidelity comes from a very creepy place in which women are property, and a husband is a source of income and social legitimacy rather than somebody you sleep with and talk to who has slept and talked with other people in the past, and might in the future, and you hope not while you're together, or maybe you don't care, but either way hopefully you can work it out among you, because the real problem isn't who he's fucking, it's why the two of you can't talk about it.

Unless he's an outright lying rat, which is a whole other thing.
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #167 on: Oct 11, 2005, 02:28:12 PM »

bernard, you are awesome.  that is all.
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Andrew_TSKS
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Posts: 39426


« Reply #168 on: Oct 11, 2005, 02:59:03 PM »

Quote from: "Bernard"
Also, I think a lot of the moral culture surrounding infidelity comes from a very creepy place in which women are property, and a husband is a source of income and social legitimacy rather than somebody you sleep with and talk to who has slept and talked with other people in the past, and might in the future, and you hope not while you're together, or maybe you don't care, but either way hopefully you can work it out among you, because the real problem isn't who he's fucking, it's why the two of you can't talk about it.


this can certainly be true. then again, when it is true what comes along with it is this double standard where it matters if a girl is cheating, but if a guy does it, it's supposed to be accepted under some "that's how guys are" double standard bullshit. i notice a lot of that in r&b song lyrics, actually. however, in my worldview, the guy has no more right to behave that way than the girl does. in the end, i oppose infidelity because it's hurtful, and there's something doubly fucked up about the fact that you're hurting the person you've pledged to love unconditionally. the property aspect doesn't come into it at all, and it actually bothers me that i should even have to type that out, because i'm pretty disgusted with that entire concept and hate to have to discuss it even in order to distance myself from it.
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heather marie
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Posts: 5753


« Reply #169 on: Oct 11, 2005, 03:01:41 PM »

yeah! and this may have already been discussed here (i'm reading partial bits, because cheating/infidelity makes me super uncomfortable).. if a guy cheats, then the girl he is cheating with (who may or may not know if he has a partner) is the slut, while the guy never gets in trouble. what the fuck is up with that?
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Andrew_TSKS
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Posts: 39426


« Reply #170 on: Oct 11, 2005, 03:08:29 PM »

once again, that's not a double standard i subscribe to. as far as i'm concerned, the person who did the cheating is at fault. but then, i also don't think you should fuck someone you know is in a relationship with someone else. a good friend of mine fucked a married woman recently. that really bugged me.
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stephanie
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Posts: 1913


« Reply #171 on: Oct 11, 2005, 03:17:40 PM »

Quote from: "heather marie"
(i'm reading partial bits, because cheating/infidelity makes me super uncomfortable)


Oh my GOD, woman, how can you deal with being my friend?!  *hangs head in shame/terror*

Will second/third/&c. the sentiment that Bernard's post is awesome.

Also, in my experience (excessive would be an understatement), girls are always the sluts because a) you want to get mad at the person you don't know, not the person you trusted your life with and b) girls, subconsciously or openly, seem to expect more from other girls than they do from boys.

Hey, how's about those boys making out with other boys?  TOTALLY FANTASTIC, yes?  (YES.)

PS:  I cringe at the whole "nobody's completely straight" thing, because oh my lord, I am so incredibly straight it occasionally unsettles people, and I do not wish to have the concept put forth that I do not like girls In That Way because I am a) close-minded or b) partially unaware of myself and/or the inner workings of my personality.
I say, nobody should give a damn who anyone else on earth wants to/does go to bed with except themselves and the people they want to/do go to bed with.  Within reason, of course.
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DCDave
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Posts: 10387


« Reply #172 on: Oct 11, 2005, 03:19:34 PM »

Quote from: "stephanie"

PS:  I cringe at the whole "nobody's completely straight" thing, because oh my lord, I am so incredibly straight it occasionally unsettles people, and I do not wish to have the concept put forth that I do not like girls In That Way because I am a) close-minded or b) partially unaware of myself and/or the inner workings of my personality.
I say, nobody should give a damn who anyone else on earth wants to/does go to bed with except themselves and the people they want to/do go to bed with.  Within reason, of course.


Haha. Stephanie I  Heart  you.
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Doctor Bob
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Posts: 2882


« Reply #173 on: Oct 11, 2005, 03:42:08 PM »

Quote from: "Bernard"
the real problem isn't who he's fucking, it's why the two of you can't talk about it.

Truest words here.

I've loved reading this thread, but hesitated to post 'cause most of it's been written already.  My two cents is fwb never works for me.  I wish it would, how I wish, but I'm me.

Andrew- In the past while I've been in two similar scenarios, what you might call cast iron sure things (and guaranteed not to be found out), that I've walked away from because the ladies in question (both very foxy redheads, incidentally) were both attached.  I think this is because I've had the dirt done on me by someone I trusted not to (it was a distance relationship, but that's a whole other thread), and as a result can't bring myself to be involved in such shenanigans.  I try and apply the logic of a different ex, that it's up to the person in the relationship to behave but singles can try it on with whom they please, but it just doesn't work.

Also, in my experience, boys' tongues are like sandpaper.  I wanted to satisfy my curiosity some years ago, and it was well and truly satisfied.  Job done, show me the ladies.

Finally, I can be and have been equally scathing about guys and girls who do the dirt.  We may have our differences, but 'diminished responsibility' isn't one of them.
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Andrew_TSKS
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Posts: 39426


« Reply #174 on: Oct 11, 2005, 04:04:48 PM »

Quote from: "Doctor Bob"
Andrew- In the past while I've been in two similar scenarios, what you might call cast iron sure things (and guaranteed not to be found out), that I've walked away from because the ladies in question (both very foxy redheads, incidentally) were both attached.  I think this is because I've had the dirt done on me by someone I trusted not to (it was a distance relationship, but that's a whole other thread), and as a result can't bring myself to be involved in such shenanigans.  I try and apply the logic of a different ex, that it's up to the person in the relationship to behave but singles can try it on with whom they please, but it just doesn't work.


yup, that's me as well. i agree with that entire paragraph.

by the way, have we established for certain that you're female? i'm thinking we have, but conversations like this are harder when you're not 100% sure of someone's gender.
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