*
*
Home
Help
Search
Login
Register
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Oct 01, 2014, 12:22:19 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search: Advanced search
658067 Posts in 9262 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 51 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: Double think applied to blues?  (Read 5174 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
vstm
Registered user

Posts: 7


« on: Jan 11, 2006, 09:23:14 AM »

Double think from the book 1984.

That's what the latest article made me think of.  Specifically this bit "it's something about how refusing to understand something may carry its own sort of understanding".  The premise and purpose are entirely different but it seemed somewhat similar. It's possible that I just didn't get it or could be simply wrong though.

On the subject of both lyrics and possibly being wrong, I once suggested to nall from themountaingoats.net that the lyrics to pure heat might be different and he changed them to what I thought they were.  To this day I think of that occasionally because I've never been 100% sure I was right.
Logged

theartlessmonster
Registered user

Posts: 5178


« Reply #1 on: Jan 11, 2006, 09:56:13 AM »

Quote from: "vstm"

That's what the latest article made me think of.  Specifically this bit "it's something about how refusing to understand something may carry its own sort of understanding".  The premise and purpose are entirely different but it seemed somewhat similar.


vstm, I have thought about this a bit, well the part about something and for my purposes I will call it art, so I think art at some point separates itself from the artist in each of the viewers and/or listeners mind.  I probably won't say this right but it has to do with the collective unconscious I think in some ways.  I start to think we are all more connected as a species than we think maybe we are, I mean if you think about how two people can come up with the exact same melody just say for example and they are on completely different parts of the globe, I mean did you ever think where did that melody come from?  The brain of the artist or are they channeling some energy some collective energy, same with lyrics, because man isn't that why some songs you just feel it so much, because its you, its part of you in the sense we are all humans experiencing life.  Or you know you hear artists saying, this song came to me in a dream, or writers may say this too, I read this quote about the “Light be the turf on the breast of the Heaven inspired poet…” from Robert Burns, Robert Burns (author of Auld Lang Syne) from a letter he sent on December 17, 1788 - and I thought I knew what he was saying, but at the same time I don't think its "heaven" doing the inspiring. I think we inspire each other. Or did you ever hear about that author PKD he wrote and wrote about this "woman" seeminly fictional she would come to him, he met a woman years after he wrote the book that never read his book but the events of her life were what he had written about, so that is the thing that makes me wonder about art. And specifically music may be hitting on some sort of collective rhthyms in our bodies you knwo? Do you guys believe in that sort of thing?  

I also started to think it's not just humans we are connected to the animals too, lots of animals that hum and sing too and make music too right? They can't read music can they? So where does it come from?  Just things I wonder about sometimes.  Sometimes though I think we think we are such "individuals" but we are more similar than we are different and I don't care what walk of life you come from there is always a way to connect with someone else.  Artists that can release thier work are lucky because they get to share that connection with big group of people and then perform for them. Its all so incredible!!! I get very excited when I think about it!! So if you ask me, music is everywhere and everything and everyday it lies silent until some artist somewhere is talented enough to channel it. Or some bird decides to wail a melody to you as you open your window on a sunny morning.
Logged

Don't be a swiss roll.
Andrew_TSKS
Registered user

Posts: 39426


« Reply #2 on: Jan 11, 2006, 11:21:07 AM »

i'm really not sure about doublethink and i'm even less sure about mary's post and how it relates to the original post, so i'm just gonna throw this out there: as far as i can tell, there's almost nothing john likes more, where art is concerned, than uncertainty. he acknowledges this in his blues essay and relates it to his childhood catholicism, and that may be why he's this way. all i know is, he IS this way. i personally am not. i like coming up with interpretations of bands' lyrics, and if they are too specifically written there's a lot less grey area in doing so, but i still always want to make sure i'm getting the words exactly right. if finding out the words makes the song mean less to me, i guess that's the price i pay. i have no idea why john and i completely disagree on this one, what it is in our respective backgrounds that causes the divergence, but regardless it's there.

that's my thoughts on the matter.
Logged

I just want to be myself and I want you to love me for who I am.
theartlessmonster
Registered user

Posts: 5178


« Reply #3 on: Jan 11, 2006, 12:01:09 PM »

oh Andrew!  I know! when I read back what I wrote its more like my stream of thoughts, sorry about that! I get in my own little world!  So forget about the latter part that I wrote...

I was agreeing totally that art has its own understanding that belongs to the art. So I guess just to say in my opinion the "purpose" of music, (although I hate using that word as its to incinuate it has to have a specific purpose), is not to be decoded or figured out or demystified however you would say it, its purpose in my opinion, is to be felt and is to connect us all.  And you may get the words exactly right, but those are just words anyways, there is alot unspoken and the unspoken is emminantly more powerful for me anyways, when it comes to art.

I don't know when you look at a painting do you need the artist there saying, this, this right here this shadow of dark this means this, I would never want that is all I am saying.  Or I don't know when you look at a painting that is mostly yellow, no one has to tell you, "this is yellow" you know its yellow but you don't look at it say think, "oh yellow" you would probably describe it as "happy" or "warm" or maybe something completely not even associated typically with yellow, so I guess I am saying just as a painting is not limited in feeling to strictly its colors a song is not bound by its lyrics specifically, in fact it may not even have lyrics, right?  

You know what I would love to do once is before an artist released a song, I would love to listen to it sans the lyrics, write down my feelings and thoughts, then add in the lyrics and see if at all my theory is correct that its still channels a feeling without directly stating it.
Logged

Don't be a swiss roll.
vstm
Registered user

Posts: 7


« Reply #4 on: Jan 11, 2006, 09:12:20 PM »

I actually like the songs where the melody seems to portray one thing while the lyrics contradict it.  Happy songs about sad things?  Like TMG "No Children" or the Ataris "Ben Lee".  I know what you mean about some songs just sounding like lyrics you would write or have written or a song that just seems to fit everything you think that song should be, as if it was a good song you heard at birth, but couldn't possibly have.

No one knows how birds know how, and what to sing.

Maybe 1984 had a lot to do with collective self concious.  I mean, I think it was more of a warning about government powers taking their powers to the extreme limits where they can never fall and no one is ever really free, but they would have to emit a will greater than physical and verbal persuasion allow.

Related to 1984, but not really to this I was thinking today that Apple seems to have their own  "ministry of truth".  It's as if they say "PPC is better, PPC has always been and will always be better" and then the next day it "Intel" instead of "PPC".  Whatever.

I'm one of those kind of people who like to know exactly what a lyric is, whether I understand it or not.  I always like to know everything though...it's kind of like the fear of the dark I used to have.  I wasn't afraid of the dark itself I was afraid of not knowing what was there, because if I didn't know it could be anything.  I dont' really like uncertainty.

I'm also not always so great at understanding art and music and poetry.  I just don't "feel it" if that makes any sense. i think it has to do with my search for truth and facts but more to do with mental chemical levels.  I used to have severe ADHD and then I took ritalin and it made me permanently depressed...or maybe just supressed depending on the situation.  The ADD itself might also kind of distract me from the music.  Sometimes I can feel the music, the beat, the passion but sometimes it's just lifeless.  I think passion is very important for good music.  I dunno, maybe I isolate myself from the collective music of everyone outside of my own self, so I end up being musically hollow.
Logged

elpollodiablo
Registered user

Posts: 32624


« Reply #5 on: Jan 12, 2006, 12:28:08 AM »

I was thinking about this, my favorite novel, earlier today. There was a story on Talk Of the Nation about the expansion of video surveillance in Great Britain to include ALL of the nation's highways. They said they could keep tag information in a database for up to two years...
Wally, what's going on over there?
Logged

think 'on the road.'
Wally
Registered user

Posts: 9184


« Reply #6 on: Jan 12, 2006, 02:49:25 PM »

Sorry, I have no idea. There are cameras pointing at me from all directions, if I were to tell you what was really what was going on they'd kill me

  Help, won't somebody help! Free the Wally one!
Logged

Thus begin the chronicles of the Self-Loathing Gay Commando.
rockmeamadeus
Registered user

Posts: 7199


« Reply #7 on: Jan 12, 2006, 03:50:48 PM »

Wally, don't show your reaction to the cameras, but I'll be over with some fuckin' ninjas in a few and I'm going to rescue you.
Logged
Wally
Registered user

Posts: 9184


« Reply #8 on: Jan 12, 2006, 07:28:37 PM »

BLLAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKE!

I think the ninja's turned on him. There was some screaming, and then silence. A large thud, and someone went cowabunga.
Logged

Thus begin the chronicles of the Self-Loathing Gay Commando.
difficult
Registered user

Posts: 2175


« Reply #9 on: Jan 13, 2006, 12:42:45 AM »

cowabunga: Among other things, the sweet (?) sound of derailment.
Logged

Your choke chain collars remind me of summer laughter
SPACERACE
Registered user

Posts: 12155


« Reply #10 on: Jan 13, 2006, 03:46:46 AM »

no, it's the sweeeeeeet sound of derailment.
Logged

Supplier of highest-quality synthetic duck butter
difficult
Registered user

Posts: 2175


« Reply #11 on: Jan 13, 2006, 03:49:25 AM »

cheerfully withdrawn; I stand corrected.
Logged

Your choke chain collars remind me of summer laughter
jebreject
Registered user

Posts: 27071


« Reply #12 on: Jan 13, 2006, 08:10:03 AM »

more like the sweaty sound of defilement, amirite?
Logged

I'm not racist, I've got lots of black Facebook friends.
Pages: [1]
Print
LPTJ | Last Plane Forums | Last Plane | Topic: Double think applied to blues?
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Board layout based on the Oxygen design by Bloc