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658305 Posts in 9264 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 50 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: what's making you sad right now?  (Read 88523 times)
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Good Intentions
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Posts: 13882


« Reply #1150 on: Feb 11, 2007, 05:38:11 AM »

(I wrote something like this before my last response to artless, but it got swallowed by the machine by accident, and I couldn't work up the enthusiasism then to type it out again)
Quote from: "Gracelette"
Quote from: "GI"
my frustration at Mary's (and now Gracelette's) responses is that they insist that the only way to talk about these things is considering them as, and only as, gut responses.


Uh, the whole point of my post was that I wasn't talking about emotions, I was talking about tears.

The distinction between emotion and other immidiate and unconscious responses is only significant if you place some intrinsic value in emotion for its own sake. An easy enough thing to do in our cultural milieu, but not something I have sympathy for. I nonetheless was careful to avoid talking about emotion when discussing your point, instead sticking to the general catogory that I believe emotion and the other involuntary responses belong to.

Quote
Quote
If your response to what I've said is to defend the role of emotion, you haven't engaged with the subject, but are instead talking about yourself.


See above. You misread me. I was engaging with Mary's ice cream post because it was infinitely more interesting to me than convincing some lovestruck dude not to be lovestruck.

Disingeneous. Why then did you address me?

Quote
OK... well, I sure hope you can see how you posting about lack of perspective immediately after a post about tears might just be construed as you saying that somebody crying over a ruined ice cream equated to lack of perspective over the loss, rather than you saying that somebody posting about crying over a ruined ice cream equated to lack of perspective and inappropriate response to what (to you) was the subject of the thread.

Well, yes. Your response only made sense as you jumping to Mary's aid against me bullying her, which is how I approached it.

You can also understand why, when I characterised public outbursts of private feelings as unduly self-indulgent, and Mary posted something about how emotion is unquestionable as a motive, I would respond the way I did.

On this point I think we don't need to have bad blood between us.

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the conversation was turning into something of little relevance to what we were discussing, but of immense interest to whoever was posting at the moment.


Talking about lovestruck young dudes was of immense interest to you, what Mary posted and the arising subject of the difference between emotions/tears was of some interest to me - such is the nature of an internet forum, know what I mean?

Mary wasn't talking about the difference between emotions and tears, you, and only you, were. You are of course coming at things with much the same approach as Mary, being one where you place your own feelings as a sacred and untouchable part of yourself. I think this position is firstly ill-considered and secondly self-indulgent, and I would very much like to be able to espouse my view without being cast in the role of a monster.

It's hugely telling that your response to me addressing your points is you reverting to questioning my motives, without offering an answer of your own.
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coldforge
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Posts: 11924


« Reply #1151 on: Feb 11, 2007, 10:25:44 AM »

I swear to god, it's like he's "Pulling a GI"
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l'era del terzo mondo.
elpollodiablo
Registered user

Posts: 32624


« Reply #1152 on: Feb 11, 2007, 12:00:18 PM »

Quote from: "andronicus"
Quote from: "Good Intentions"
Excellence is a habit. One cultivates it within oneself.
Success is a mental transformation, not an external event.


Holy shit man that is amazing, how'd you find it?
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think 'on the road.'
heather marie
Registered user

Posts: 5753


« Reply #1153 on: Feb 11, 2007, 12:11:43 PM »

Quote from: "elpollodiablo"
Quote from: "andronicus"
Quote from: "Good Intentions"
Excellence is a habit. One cultivates it within oneself.
Success is a mental transformation, not an external event.


Holy shit man that is amazing, how'd you find it?


The Michael Cera one on youtube has a link to the crazy dude's.
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #1154 on: Feb 11, 2007, 01:40:49 PM »

Pollo, watch the Michael Cera one, too.
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DanielBurns11
Registered user

Posts: 1322


« Reply #1155 on: Feb 11, 2007, 01:47:24 PM »

Quote from: "jebreject"
Pollo, watch the Michael Cera one, too.


Holy shit! The Michael Cera video if the funniest shit I've seen in years!
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Anne the Man
Registered user

Posts: 4444


« Reply #1156 on: Feb 11, 2007, 02:12:01 PM »

Quote from: "Good Intentions"
I'm not going to get into a discussion about my character, not least of all because it's beside the point. Bad form, Gracelette, for playing an aggressive mischaracterisation as a get-out-card.

Delightful little trick you have there, stepping in to tell someone he's wrong, and then being disparaging about the fact that he's defending himself.


Marinus, wtf? You know I like you, but honestly, right now you're not doing anything but sounding like an asshole.
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theartlessmonster
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Posts: 5178


« Reply #1157 on: Feb 11, 2007, 03:36:04 PM »

Marinus!  Like Anne, also I like you, don't mistake my responses for not liking you, actually if I really didn't like you I probably would not respond to you at all.  But do we always have to say this?  we do this all the time argue but then have to disclaimer "but you know i like you" can't we just all always assume that we all kinda like each other?  just a little? and that's probably why we are here?  and that yes, we all say stuff that annoys each other every now and again but that's EMOTION for you. and the nature of familiarity, familiary breeds contempt.

And as far as Gracelette and I we WERE talking about the nature of tears which is why I brought up the biochemical differences between tears shed in distress and tears shed for other reasons.  Are all tears created equal? Some studies suggest no.  So don't tell us what we were or were not talking about.  

The interesting point to me for discussion that was in fact based on skitischx's situation.

So first we need to establish which I think is quite true that emotions whether it's instinctual or not do lead us to action, now I say lead us does not mean we have to take those actions.  Also we need to distinguish between basic emotions and complex emotions, it's easy to see how some of the basic emotions such as fear and anger help us to survive.  

The capacity for fear is very useful when you live in a big crime ridden city, it allows us to react very swiftly to signs of danger, it pumps our bodies full of hormones that help us escape fast and project one thought into your mind, "flee". Anger in similar in that it prepares us to fight.

Also, I think it's interesting that like with the cat some emotional expressions are not honest but really acts of deception to make the cat "seem" bigger than it is, and sometimes you can still feel your hair stand on end that's leftover which is one of the reasond Darwin studied these outward signals. So I wonder what other emotions actually lead us to acts of deception.  I personally think love is one of them.

i.e. for further reading "The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals" by Darwin.  But see Darwin argued that tears shed in distress did not serve any useful function, he thought they were incidental result of pressure on tear glands, and were similar to a sneeze or laugh reaction.  Seems to me this is similar to your approach, GI, is similar.

But my real question is when you boil it down and think about the aforementioned "lovestruck" situation. Sure he could follow his head and stop seeing this girl (and still love her) or he could continue to (and still love her), I'm saying it's hard to make a judgement call on what leads him or anyone for that matter to the the "better" path or the path with less pain.  I'm saying either path has pain, so why not follow your heart? i.e. let your emotion lead you to action.  I don't know but I imagine this hypothetical study where you have one person who always follows thier heart and the other thier head, what would become of each one?

Personally, even if it caused pain, I've always followed my heart and let my emotion guide me, when it comes to love that is, not everything.  But that's me, everyone does feel things differently, I do agree with that Marinus.  And no this is not me indulging myself talking about only MY feelings, I'm just saying people come at situations differently. You are saying you need to train yourself NOT to act on your emotions or let your emotions lead you.  And for basic emotions I don't think you can argue that, like fear above you should run if your life is in danger your emotion is guiding you correctly there. But for a complex emotion like love, its not so clear now is it?

You want to advise skitchx so as he maybe won't make some of the same what maybe you percieve mistakes as you did? I don't know but it does sound that way, as Gracelette said, but my point is, where they really mistakes?  Ever see the movie "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?" it speaks to that you can't make your life pain free no matter which path you take, he erased her but still he wanted it all back, the pain and all.

So anyways, Marinus, I don't think you were "bullying" me as you described it, for the record, I'm not some little flower that believes in unicorns and cries when I read your posts, so get that idea out of your head. I'm a lot tougher than you might think.

And...one last thought.  Your anger lead you to post all those things to Gracelette, so you are in fact letting your emotions lead you to action, exactly what you are "riling" against.  Why do you think that is?
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Don't be a swiss roll.
Wally
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Posts: 9184


« Reply #1158 on: Feb 11, 2007, 04:33:28 PM »

I'm sad I just saw Grace's name and Eternal Sunshine of spotless mind used in the same sentence. It just ain't right.

And Marinus, are you doing this because in some other thread recently Miles said you've got a lot better at talking to people? Is this some form of "HAHA I'll show those yankee scoundrels." or are you just taking satire to the next level?
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Thus begin the chronicles of the Self-Loathing Gay Commando.
auto-da-fey
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Posts: 9495


« Reply #1159 on: Feb 11, 2007, 08:25:19 PM »

I just had about the perfect weekend, but it ends in six hours when I fly back to Miami.

So I'm pretty sad about that, but the Darwin citation two posts above mitigates some of the mopiness.
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C of heartbreak
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Posts: 5285


« Reply #1160 on: Feb 11, 2007, 08:37:03 PM »

You'd better not be crying about it is all.
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HOW WOULD I BE? WHAT WOULD I DO?
Anne the Man
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Posts: 4444


« Reply #1161 on: Feb 11, 2007, 09:57:01 PM »

Quote from: "theartlessmonster"
Marinus! Like Anne, also I like you, don't mistake my responses for not liking you, actually if I really didn't like you I probably would not respond to you at all. But do we always have to say this? we do this all the time argue but then have to disclaimer "but you know i like you" can't we just all always assume that we all kinda like each other? just a little? and that's probably why we are here? and that yes, we all say stuff that annoys each other every now and again but that's EMOTION for you. and the nature of familiarity, familiary breeds contempt.


Sorry. I just put that in cos I'm really not good at calling people assholes. And I could go on a long spiel here about my confrontational issues but it'd probably be boring for all of us.
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Good Intentions
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Posts: 13882


« Reply #1162 on: Feb 11, 2007, 10:42:16 PM »

I'm sorry, did Gracelette get some ticket for making disparaging comments towards people? Being indignant is a trick she pulls at times, and then the other party is supposed to slink away and think about the bad they've done - not only against the Mike Ms of the world but also the Bernards (and just above). Which group you put me into doesn't really matter, but her response to my comments was ad hominem, and that doesn't fly.

Edit: But let's not go through this again.
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #1163 on: Feb 11, 2007, 10:52:43 PM »

this is getting out-of-fucking hand
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RavingLunatic
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Posts: 6408


« Reply #1164 on: Feb 11, 2007, 10:55:32 PM »

First deriding someone's response to him and then describing their words as a "trick" is a trick GI pulls at times. Yes, it pretty much makes everyone hate him, but he likes how smart it makes him feel to turn such clever tricks.
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I will meditate and then destroy you!
cool banana
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Posts: 1907


« Reply #1165 on: Feb 11, 2007, 10:59:41 PM »

My Opa has been in hospital for two and half weeks, in a serious condition apparently, and is probably going to have most of his leg amputated. That's fine, we had been expecting that for some time. What's not fine, however, is the fact that nobody fucking told me! Two and a half weeks. I speak to my Mum maybe three times a week on the phone and my Father the same. I work with my cousin's wife. I've seen both my Aunt and Uncle once each in the last two weeks. Nobody thought to perhaps mention that my Grandfather was in hospital and as his sister recently died he is pretty depressed and really not interested in staying alive at the moment (I just got word he might not have all his leg amputated and he apparently perked up a little bit at this news) but the point is that I have had contact with seven different family members in the last two weeks and I had absolutely no idea. My Dad made an emergency visit at one point! I call my Grandparents maybe once a month but because I saw them after New Years I hadn't until last night and Oma's tone of voice suggested she wasn't so happy I'd waited so long to call.

AGNJISDFGNLASDGK It just worries me that I'm missing out on important stuff because I don't live at home. I didn't get invited to my Cousin's wedding because the invitation went via my parents. I mean sort it out Mum and Dad.
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She's like, so whatever
coldforge
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Posts: 11924


« Reply #1166 on: Feb 11, 2007, 11:08:20 PM »

banana shh can't you see that intentions is having a snit
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l'era del terzo mondo.
cool banana
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Posts: 1907


« Reply #1167 on: Feb 11, 2007, 11:10:51 PM »

Quote from: "coldforge"
banana shh can't you see that intentions is having a snit


haha
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She's like, so whatever
Anne the Man
Registered user

Posts: 4444


« Reply #1168 on: Feb 11, 2007, 11:18:00 PM »

Man, that sucks. You oughta stay at their house for awhile and then leave without warning and go hitch-hiking. After awhile, come back to town and drive past them on the street saying "Hey mum and dad! I heard Opa's in hospital, why wasn't I told?" Then cos you're looking at them not the road you accidentally knock down your one-armed friend whose false arm flies off and hits your now screaming parents, and he staggers over to them and says "And that's why you always keep your son in the loop."
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cool banana
Registered user

Posts: 1907


« Reply #1169 on: Feb 11, 2007, 11:20:09 PM »

Holy shit, go to sleep Anne!
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She's like, so whatever
Anne the Man
Registered user

Posts: 4444


« Reply #1170 on: Feb 11, 2007, 11:21:32 PM »

That's only semi-tiredness-induced-incoherence you know. Watch Arrested Development, you will be a better man.
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cool banana
Registered user

Posts: 1907


« Reply #1171 on: Feb 11, 2007, 11:32:34 PM »

So I've been told. Right, time to log off my work computer and brave the weather to get home.
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She's like, so whatever
Sing The Children Over
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Posts: 1210


« Reply #1172 on: Feb 13, 2007, 12:04:44 AM »

Marinus stop being such a thought cop, it's like you get in your little G.I Cruiser and roll through the hoods looking for people to hit with your intellect baton.

We ain't all Rodney King you know. Not everyone's gonne be all "I'm sorry officer, I don't know where that thought came from, I think a friend gave it to me"

I got love for you dude, but let it go.
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The almighty dollar it ain't what it used to be.
tops wobbling
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Posts: 510


« Reply #1173 on: Feb 13, 2007, 04:49:54 PM »

My ex-girlfriend, who I am not really over AT ALL, although I am making great strides, kept calling me last night. I didn't pick up, but she left me like 5 drunken vm about charlie parker and changing her major in school and etc. I really wanted to pick up, but I feel like I would suddenly be back at stage 1, and that's what's making me so indescribably sad, I guess. I wish we could talk to each other like normal human beings or somehow be friends, but I just don't think I can handle it. Gosh, I miss her.  Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad  Crying or Very sad
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this might be my favorite incident of a can of worms being opened in my entire life.
davy
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Posts: 24822


« Reply #1174 on: Feb 14, 2007, 12:00:35 AM »

over a dozen people have been fired in the past 2 weeks at my new furniture store job. the last three to go were people just like me, and two of them in particular i valued as new friends, solid and true. now i'll probably never see them again.

the store is new, and so far has gotten off to the slowest start in the history of the company. the causes for this are mainly marketing errors (mail coupons sent to the wrong city, etc), and the fact that our shopping mall is as new as we are and right now is mostly empty. no one in town knows we're actually open. plus, january and february are the slowest furniture-buying months.

anyway, there's pressure from the higher-ups, and the store management has been laying folks off willy-nilly--"hey kevin? scott would like to speak with you in his office..."--four or five at a stroke, and the rest of us are living in fear. i'm more surprised than anybody that i've still got my job. i had a great january, but if i have another two weeks of poor sales like the last two weeks i've had, i'm sure i'll be on the chopping block soon enough.

ugh.
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The drummer IS the foundation, p3wn.
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