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658126 Posts in 9262 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 44 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: Depression thread  (Read 30412 times)
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Swimmy
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« on: Oct 22, 2007, 10:00:36 PM »

This should be separate from the "sadness" thread, right? It's kind of a wholly different thing--a permanent state of sadness even when there's no logical reason behind it. Of course I only have the guts to make this thread when I'm drunk, which is pretty much the only time I'm not depressed these days.

So hey, talk about your depression if you need to. The internet can be a good place for things like this, especially a touchy-feely forum like LPTJ. Me? I like to stay kinda secretive, so I'll just leave it at Holy shit I am depressed when will this end? and enjoy my alcohol in the mean time.
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Swimmy
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 22, 2007, 10:03:00 PM »

Actually, casual note: depression makes you do really stupid things. Like, tonight I missed an American Steel reunion show. I can't even explain my devotion to this band, I love them, and they were playing with the Lawrence Arms, who I also love, but I just. . . didn't feel like driving to Baltimore.

Huh.
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slow west vultures
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 22, 2007, 10:11:39 PM »

good call swimmy (in starting the depression thread.  i'm sorry to hear you're depressed and missing shows, i definitely feel that way right now too)

i'm experimenting with my meds again, which is always fun times.  i've been trying to taper off my zoloft for a long slow time, hoping to reacquaint myself with my emotions and see if there's stuff i should be doing behaviorally that would make me feel better.  but i realized that it was kind of a dead end again.  i wasn't going to be able to be off it completely for very long.  i just noticed myself becoming more and more misanthropic and pessimistic.  (not that i don't have very good reasons for being misanthropic - well maybe most of them are because i'm depressed)  anyways, there's usually one good day when you go up on a serotonin med - when life feels a little bit better, and you can exhale and wonder 'why was i in this pessimistic downward spiral again?'  then your serotonin receptors are like "what the fuck, we're getting deluged here, better cut back" and you feel like crap again, and you have to start a long slow campaign to force your brain to accept the more serotonin.  and on net it never seems like you reclaim as much happiness as the amount of time and patience you put into it. 

so i'm trying to bypass that serotonin receptor downregulation phenomenon by not increasing so fast.  i don't know if it will work or not.  i'm feeling pretty depressed now.  could be watching tv, doing anything, but i just don't feel like it.   
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hannah
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 22, 2007, 10:35:28 PM »

I'm currently operating on a batch of Celexa from a friend of a friend. I take just enough every four or five days to stave off the awful withdrawal. This was how the withdrawal was described in the New York Times Magazine five months ago:

Quote
One night as I lay back to go to sleep, I felt a quick spasm in my head as if an electrical current had suddenly been sent through a circuit somewhere inside my brain. Two more followed in quick succession. With each came a wave of nausea. I sat up. They seemed to disappear. They returned. I realized these were the brain zaps, and over the next few weeks they would come, with no distinguishable pattern, several times a day.

That's pretty much my experience. Sometimes it's so bad there are trails in my vision, or I feel like I'm floating, a sensation combined with the doom of the coming fall. Because I have awful health insurance, I can't get a new prescription, let alone pay for the drugs right now -- I'd have to pay for them out of pocket -- hence the falsely acquired ones and the rationing.

Which means, of course, depression.
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Swimmy
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 22, 2007, 10:48:06 PM »

I've never tried an anti-depressant. Too scared to really say anything to anybody to work that out. Plus, you know, scared of that kind of medicine in general. Usually it goes away after whatever's in my head works itself out, or situations change, or I just get off my ass and manage to do something for myself. Having more than a bit of trouble with that this time around.
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hannah
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 22, 2007, 10:53:50 PM »

I don't know what to say. I mean, my experience has been less than ideal, but most of it's my own fault. I originally went on anti-anxiety medication -- a low dose of stuff usually used as an anti-psychotic -- and then went on an anti-depressant to counteract the flattening effect of the anti-anxiety stuff. I eventually had to go off the first pill, though, because I gained a bunch of weight and, more importantly, it made me sleep 13 hours, which got rid of the nightmares but didn't help with my grades or social life. I was then really derelict in taking the new anxiety medication, and eventually went off it on my own because I couldn't afford it (even with decent insurance, the co-pay was $30 or $40!). Blah.
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RavingLunatic
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 23, 2007, 02:13:48 AM »

Quote
One night as I lay back to go to sleep, I felt a quick spasm in my head as if an electrical current had suddenly been sent through a circuit somewhere inside my brain. Two more followed in quick succession. With each came a wave of nausea. I sat up. They seemed to disappear. They returned. I realized these were the brain zaps, and over the next few weeks they would come, with no distinguishable pattern, several times a day.

That's pretty much my experience. Sometimes it's so bad there are trails in my vision, or I feel like I'm floating, a sensation combined with the doom of the coming fall. Because I have awful health insurance, I can't get a new prescription, let alone pay for the drugs right now -- I'd have to pay for them out of pocket -- hence the falsely acquired ones and the rationing.

Which means, of course, depression.

The head zaps are awful. That description is pretty much on the money. They are a lot worse when you lie down. I can also hear a sound every time it happens. Sort of sounds like someone shook a shoebox full of sand in your head. In my experience, doctors don't even know about this side effect. The pharmaceutical industry has doctors in their back pocket. I have no faith in antidepressants anymore. I've also read that meta-analyses indicate that anti-depressants have had no effect on depression. I don't know what all the research shows, but when the whole process is so warped by pharma money and interests, none of it means anything anyways. The healthcare industry in this country is utterly fucked, and it's never going to change in my lifetime.
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aftm
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 23, 2007, 05:49:08 AM »

-
« Last Edit: Oct 23, 2007, 06:23:05 AM by aftm » Logged
dieblucasdie
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 23, 2007, 05:52:44 AM »

OKAY so my friend gave me half her bottle of red-and-blue pills cause



Seriously, though, G:  It's a no-brainer.  If you think you have real problems with depression, go see a doctor and get your own meds.  Sell that new Beamer and get a fuckin' used Chrysler if need be Smile In any case, don't take your friend's meds.  Actually you should probably see a doctor regardless, if you're going off those pills, depending on how long you've taken them.
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jebreject
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 23, 2007, 05:58:51 AM »

Yeah, ppl, seriously
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aftm
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 23, 2007, 06:04:41 AM »

is a very old beamer to be fair. But yeah, thing is my mum works at the only doctor around here. And i know that's a pathetic excuse if I have a real problem, but I don't know if I do, y'know?
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 23, 2007, 06:25:48 AM »

The doctor can't/won't tell your mom shit, if you don't want.  Tell mom you have a rash on your manparts or something and go see the good doctor.
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aftm
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 23, 2007, 06:30:25 AM »

 Cool Sounds like a plan. She's on reception BTW, which could be odd. The doctor's life has kinda fallen apart also, her daughter recently committed suicide, (a friend/acquaintence of mine) the school principal spoke at her funeral about how much they all loved her, only he thought her name was "sasha". It's not. And this really has not much to do with anything.
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difficult
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 23, 2007, 06:34:01 AM »

Where are you Adam? I thought you were in town somewhere?
I obviously didn't see the murked part there, but is there a reason you don't want to talk to your family about it? Unless you're planning on leaving home real soon, its easier to do these things with people on your side, and its surprising what people will come to understand when you do it the right way and they care baout you.

But taking someone elses meds isn't such a good idea.

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aftm
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Posts: 276


« Reply #14 on: Oct 23, 2007, 06:39:18 AM »

I always say I live in wellington, truth is I live just out of Waikanae. I already moved (was kicked) out of home, but I still go to school and live like ten minutes drive away. And my place is anything but permanent. I don't know why, but I have a MAJOR history of being a hypochondriac and I'm pretty scared to talk to them about it unless I know it's a real problem cause if they brush it off (and if you knew my dad, you'd know that's a probability) as me just making excuses for failing at school or whatever, I don't know what i'll do.

And yeah, I know.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 23, 2007, 06:41:50 AM »

Go see the doctor, for the love of God.  And be completely honest with her.
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aftm
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 23, 2007, 06:43:12 AM »

You're the best, blucas. And so are you all.

 Heart

I'm gonna try catch some sleep, seeya tomorrow.
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Swimmy
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 25, 2007, 12:28:13 AM »

I'm doing that weird thing again where I forget to eat, and then at the end of the day I'm like, "Why am I all tired and crabby?"
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aftm
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 25, 2007, 04:20:58 AM »

Yeah! I never eat without a structured "lunch break" or whatever. I just forget.
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slow west vultures
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 25, 2007, 09:17:00 PM »

ugh.  so i really kinda threw good reason out, and didn't really follow through on that going up on my medicine.  but i didn't take it for a day or two, and i felt fine.  i took half today though, and its paying the price on my stomach.  this always seems to happen when i go back up on zoloft.

fun fact: less than 2% of the serotonin in your body is in your brain.  the rest can be found in blood platelets, in the mast cells that control allergic reactions, and in enterochromaffin cells in your gut.

i think the 98 or the 2% is catching up to me now though. 
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andronicus
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« Reply #20 on: Jul 10, 2008, 04:45:21 PM »

Necro'd (I obtained a predeceased affirmation of consent beforehand, I promise) to post an interesting article:

How Prozac sent the science of depression in the wrong direction
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jess
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Posts: 3571


« Reply #21 on: Jul 10, 2008, 06:15:40 PM »

Yeah, I read that the other day at work, and thought about posting it, and forgot to, so I'm glad you did. I really wish articles like that had to provide citations though, since I'm always dubious about science reporting, but the ideas sound interesting.

I was taught an alternative explanation for why SSRIs take 3-4 weeks to work (that it's because it's the eventual downregulation of serotonin receptors that effects the change in mood, which takes about that long to happen, not the presence of just increased amounts of serotonin, which happens right away), and I was lead to believe that was the leading theory, but it was stressed that no one really knows for sure.
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C of heartbreak
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« Reply #22 on: Jul 10, 2008, 06:19:32 PM »

oh em gee

I wrote something to this effect the other day. I will transcribe and post asap.
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slow west vultures
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« Reply #23 on: Jul 10, 2008, 06:28:17 PM »

i will read that whole article and post my armchair scientifician reaction later.  there's also another good article about the role of glutamate in depression that i will try to dig up.  that serotonin downregulation thing is definitely a big factor i think.  the first day or two of going up on any ssri there's that high where you're body's like 'ahhh, there's nothing to worry about in the world, and things are a lot sunnier than i've been feeling lately', but in my experience that leads to a crash for awhile where you start feeling some of the emotional numbness from the medicine, but you don't really feel that emotional high from more serotonin so you end up feeling More depressed if anything.  and for me i've been on ssris so many times, that i don't want to wait that 6-8 week period for things to stabilize.  and i'm pretty sure its because my post synaptic receptors have been flooded with serotonin when i first start the medicine ==> which leads to 'everything is great!'  and then the body, being stingy and all, cuts down on the number of serotonin receptors it has to avoid being overflooded by serotonin and maintain some kind of equilibrium (without realzing that this is going to send your  mood down the can right quick!  stupid body and its homeostases) and you really have to count on that that serotonin reuptake inhibition to eventually lift your equilibrium to --- more serotonin than you were used to experiencing before = hey i feel alright! 

umm, but like i said.  i will give  more armchair scientifician responses when i read the article. 
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Good Intentions
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« Reply #24 on: Jul 10, 2008, 06:34:04 PM »

Quote
It is jarring to think of depression in terms of atrophied brain cells, rather than an altered emotional state. It is called "depression," after all. Yet these scientists argue that the name conceals the fundamental nature of the illness, in which the building blocks of the brain - neurons - start to crumble. This leads, over time, to the shrinking of certain brain structures, like the hippocampus, which the brain needs to function normally.
This article is a great deal better than the type of science journalism that sends me up the walls, so this is the only really troublesome part. I want to stress that talk about neurons can't on its own count as an answer to a question about emotion. It's something you see a lot: you get a question about mental states, and then in the spot you expect an answer there is talk about physical states. It might very well be that the correct description of what happens in such and such a mental state involves a lot of talk about physical states, I don't dispute that. But there is nothing in talk about neurons which can address anything in a question about emotions. For you to be able to use brain-state talk to answer mental-state talk, you'd need a story of how the to are linked, and in this article no such story is offered, and correspondingly the links it tries to draw between a mental condition, depression, and a physical condition, degenerating brain cells, is entirely uninformative.

The article is still very interesting in reporting changes in the study of depression in neurology, but it's involved in a type of revisionism about the psychological terms in our vocabulary (it acts as if when we try to talk about our mental states we actually are talking about physical states, which is far from obviously correct) which occassionally almost slips into simply being eliminativism about psychological terms (when I say 'depressed' or 'angry' or 'excited' or whatever I am simply saying something false, I should be talking in neuroscience terms instead). This is rather infuriating.
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